With John Van Lenten
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What if repentance isn't just turning away from sin?
This week we're replaying one of our favorite conversations, recorded in the middle of the 62-day challenge. Rob sits down with his good friend John Van Lenten, who shares how Jesus changed the way he thinks about repentance, and how training his body has become training to follow Jesus. If you've been working through repentance and the stories you tell yourself, this one is for you.
YOU'LL HEAR
- How John went from thinking of repentance as only turning away from sin to repenting toward Jesus
- Why John asks the Holy Spirit, the author of Scripture, to apply the verses he already knows
- Why "regulate how you see" is bigger than protecting your eyes (Matthew 9:36)
- The spin bike story: how one thought made Rob's legs quit
- John's "following Jesus muscle" on the hill climb
- The prayer John prays before he falls asleep, and why Jesus doesn't take the wheel
- The thankfulness switch that puts John on the Jesus track instead of his own
JOURNAL PROMPTS
Holy Spirit, what do you want me to repent toward right now?
Father, where am I treating someone like an obstacle instead of taking a difficult situation with that person and seeing it as a gym opportunity, a time for training my ability to change the way I think?
ABOUT JOHN VAN LENTEN
John is Rob's longtime friend from Calvary Church Santa Barbara. He is passionate about discipleship and abiding in Christ (John 15), and he was in the middle of the 62-day challenge when this conversation was recorded.
SCRIPTURE MENTIONED
John 15:5 and 15:7 | Matthew 9:36 | Romans 8:6 | Psalm 121 | Psalm 63:6 | Psalm 91 | James 1 and 1 Peter 1 (consider it pure joy)
LINKS
📘 100xLife Book → https://www.100xlife.com/book
🔥 Become a 100xLife Coach → https://www.100xlife.com/coaching
🚀 Take the 62 Day Challenge → https://www.100xlife.com/challenge
Watch on YouTube
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Rob Dayton (00:00)
Welcome to the 100X Life Podcast, where we activate people who desire to live the words of Jesus and experience the abundant life He promises. I'm your host, Rob Dayton, and I hope this podcast inspires you to put in the work of following Jesus.
Rob Dayton (00:36)
Hey, 100X Lifers. Welcome back to the podcast. Today I'm coming to you from Long Beach, the site of the International City Managers Association. All 5,500 civic employees, mainly at the top, city managers, assistant city managers are here, which are primarily my clients for Strategic Culture, the business I do, coaching executive teams of cities. So much fun meeting so many great people.
And enjoying my time here. And for 100x life, we have been diving in. And I hope you've been listening to and taking notes and changing the way you think because we've been talking about repentance. We've been talking about monitoring the stories you're telling yourself. Last week we talked about the fact that you're in three time zones, really rich stuff. And those were the coaching sessions. So go back and do the work. Following Jesus is difficult.
His repentance, his command for repentance is perhaps the pinnacle of Jesus following. Once we've mastered that, then it's going to be so much easier for you to follow Jesus. And I would add, to experience happiness, to experience freedom, to experience the abundant life that Jesus promises. Repentance is at the tip of the spirit, and you, Jesus follower, can become very
good at following Jesus. You can become very good at changing the way you think in repentance. So today I thought I would dig up a podcast on repentance. And my good friend John Van Lenten, we were in the middle of the challenge, and what he had to say about repentance was awesome. So give a listen to it and enjoy it
your journal prompts for this particular session would be Holy Spirit, what do you want me to repent toward right now? Man, if that is not a predominant question, we should be asking. And then, Father, where am I treating someone
like an obstacle instead of taking a difficult situation with that person and seeing it as a gym opportunity, a time for training my ability to change the way I think. Those are great journal prompts. Enjoy my conversation with John.
Rob Dayton (02:40)
Hey, so John Van Lenten welcome to the podcast.
John Van Lenten (02:44)
Thank you, Rob.
Rob Dayton (02:45)
Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty cool. So let me just tell you about John from my perspective, and then I'll let I'll let him tell his perspective. But we were running at Calvary Church Santa Barbara. And we actually noticed each other, it felt like a Holy Spirit moment. And, right away, we went on vacation together, it was just pretty crazy. Our kids were young. And I just felt like I've always felt john that I'm just Holy Spirit connected to you.
Like you are the guy that I most connected with would say in terms of friendship, you're even with three people in terms of how I relate to people. to, if I ever have an issue or I need to talk to someone, it's going to be, they're going to be calling you. And I think maybe that's vice versa. John, it works for granite, construction, which is kind of interesting. He calls it his side job.
The ironic thing about that is what I was an official at the city of Santa Barbara for about 20 years. I fought the freeway that John is now responsible for building. So that's super ironic and bizarre. We should probably. Holy Spirit, what is all that about? Probably humble pie from my end and then. And then we've been doing ministry together. We love we both love growing disciples were both in the discipleship lane.
pretty solidly. And then one of the other things that I love about John is that his new name in Christ. This is my belief. I don't know, John, you can tell me, you know, agree or deny is, you know, really is someone who is certain certainty. Certainty is that meaning. So the reason that's manifested in your life that I've seen over time is that when you believe a thing and you start talking about that thing to other people,
There
is a power transaction and the receiver knows this is true. It's like a powerful reception for the other person. I've seen it play out. I remember exactly where I was the first time it happened. You are making an announcement about a camp, a believers edge camp to the church. And I'm just like, what was that? That was crazy. Like I want to go to the camp and I'm already going.
So John, what do we need to know about you? What did I miss?
John Van Lenten (04:59)
boy, Rob. Well, I mean, just a blessing to be with you. I love you. We are knitted together. We call each other NoMo, brothers of another mother, because I remember another situation at Calvary where I was gone one week.
And I came back the next week and I was on the prayer team and this guy came up to me and he was talking to me as if I knew him really well. And I was, eventually he got the idea by my blank stare, like I wasn't tracking with him. He's like, don't you remember we talked about this last week?
I was like, no, because I wasn't here and turns out it was you. But he was so fully convinced that it was us. But anyway, just love you. You've been, God has used you so powerfully in my life. Your disruptive tendency is what I need to stir me. And so many of the things we joke, right? Because when you say something, sometimes I'll make that face, you know, this one, like, you know, and then, but turns out, know, Papa through exploring that idea through the lens of scripture,
He has used you in powerful ways to unlock the spirits work in my heart So I'm eternally grateful for you my brother I've been married to my beautiful wife Taji for 28 years We have two kids two grown
Rob Dayton (06:08)
You.
John Van Lenten (06:08)
children Eric my son and jaslin my daughter
I am about discipleship, I'm heavily involved with influencers and the journey, which is right out of John 15. You talk a lot about John 15, seven, which is if my words abide in you, we camp in John 15, five, is if you remain in me and I remain in you, you will bear much fruit. So solidly right there and the power of abiding in Christ and what he wants to do in our life.
Rob Dayton (06:37)
So cool. And in that verse, I don't know if we've talked about this before, but it says fruit that will last
John Van Lenten (06:43)
Come on.
Rob Dayton (06:44)
and that and that word last is also abide. I don't know if you knew that. It's really cool. So it's like
John Van Lenten (06:49)
Hmm. That's good.
Rob Dayton (06:51)
it is the perfect discipleship picture is that when we abide in Jesus and his words and his love and
we give that away, it results in more abiding.
I love that. Let's see what else I'm just trying to think like there's well, the one thing that I really love about you from that moment at Calvary is that what I notice about you and the way you occurred to me is you really skyrocketed. In your intimacy with the Trinity. Can you describe that path for us and, any kind of practicality we all want?
to have an intimate relationship with each member of the Trinity. Some say, God, what did that look like for you?
John Van Lenten (07:37)
Hmm. Well, I grew up in a godly home. My parents were believers. My grandparents were believers. It was passed down to me. So I have a tremendous heritage of faith. I grew up in a pretty conservative Christian, definitely solid Christian, kind of Calvinistic theology. And so very, very high view of God and strong theological teaching. I...
I knew a lot about the Holy Spirit and I'll refer to him as his title, the Holy Spirit. I did not really know him as a person, as Holy Spirit. And the Lord used you, Rob, to, partially, big part, to really unlock my heart and my mind.
with the truth of who Holy Spirit is and what He wants to do. So, know, in 100X Life, of course, you're challenging us to journal from one person of the Trinity, and that is a stretch for me, but I am growing in it. I love it. I love it. So now I sit there and close my eyes and just think, you know, as you prompt us to think from Father's perspective or from Jesus or from Holy Spirit. Like, what would He be saying to me right now? And picture Him.
So if it's Father thinking of him as Abba Daddy, like me talking to my son Eric, what would I say? What would my tone be? What would my heart be for him? And Jesus as the one whose words I'm listening to and trying to learn, Jesus, how do I follow this? And Holy Spirit who teaches us all things, guides us into all truth, reminds us of the words of Jesus, does so many things. So I'm growing in this. I'm loving it. I'm picturing each
member of the Trinity distinctly and differently than I ever have and it is exciting.
Rob Dayton (09:19)
So cool. And I think I think for our listeners, you're starting to experience that certainty. I feel the power of it. It's really interesting, John, because what I notice in when I'm asking one of them a question, actually happened this morning. I was I was asking Papa about giving. And what I notice is.
he can oftentimes come from a completely different angle than I was conscientiously thinking, which to me, when that happens, you you talk about disruption. I think it's very disruptive in a very kind and gentle way.
And it just, almost feels like when that happens, I'm like, okay, it is you. Like, I'm not just imagining things. You're taking me in this totally different direction that I haven't even been thinking of. And
all of a sudden,
John Van Lenten (10:06)
Hmm.
Rob Dayton (10:07)
illuminating something that's important that I identify as truth. When I read it back, do you have that experience?
John Van Lenten (10:15)
Yeah, that's so good. For me, Rob, it's often, you know, I love God's Word and I've hidden some of it in my heart and I've read it for a long time. So I know a lot about it. I know a lot of truth from Scripture. So when I read something like a prompt in the book,
I know a lot of the right answers intellectually. I just know they're true. And so my instinct is to start writing and repeating what I know and affirming those truths. And that's good. It's good. But it's way better to invite Holy Spirit, who was the author, right? He breathed these words of God and gave them to the authors who wrote them down. So ask the author, John, what he wants you to know about this specific truth. How does this apply
to you and so yes then there's then there's a customized application of God's truth to my life and yes it's often different than than what maybe I was thinking about you know or what I knew intellectually he is trying to build or short maybe shore up an area in my faith that's maybe weak or a blind spot that I'm not aware of or
or maybe something like that, or maybe he's just gonna cheer me on and say, yes, you're going the right direction. So yeah, but it requires a willingness and a desire to do that, because
Rob Dayton (11:31)
Hmm.
John Van Lenten (11:31)
the easy button is, yes, I know the answer to this question, and I can write it down. But opening myself up to his...
His counsel, his wisdom, his truth that he wants to share with me at that moment about this topic today is where so much power is.
Rob Dayton (11:49)
I think that's so important.
if you're listening and you have that. The same thing that John's describing where you've got a question, you kind of know the answer based on maybe scripture you committed to memory or something a pastor said, you know, and it's, I hear John, like he said, that's good. That's fine. That's good. And then also there's disruption from Holy spirit from, from Jesus, from Papa.
And it's interesting, John, because you call me a disruptor and I've been going through this coaching program, learning about disruption and how critical disruption is for us to change the way we think.
And
if Jesus is the mindset God, I believe that he's the one who says repent and believe. I like to say repent so that you can believe. So change the way you think so that you can believe means that disruption of our patterns of behavior, our patterns of thinking the the default future, everyone's default future is just thinking the way you've always thought.
That's how your future is going to go. It'll be the same way it's always been. But if you can disrupt your thinking and do that with truth. Wow, that puts you outside of your thinking that might be more than you could ask for possibly imagine outside our thinking. We can disrupt those current patterns of behavior and maybe get something new. Do you identify with that? Does that make sense to you?
John Van Lenten (13:18)
Yeah, I do. think it's...
know, habits are well-worn paths, you know, that we are comfortable to walk down. yes, think advancing the kingdom, the kingdom of heaven or kingdom of God is advancing and forceful men lay hold of it. think forceful men break out of those ruts that they're in and they go that direction. And some of us need friends like you, need encouragement from others to help us get out of the lane we've been in and make
into a little adjacent lane. Not that it's a wrong lane, but it's a different lane. It might be filled with a more dynamic movement or a belief that challenges something that we need to in order to grow, in order to advance the kingdom.
Rob Dayton (14:05)
Hmm. Yeah. Can you think of an example of something where you actually were, you were disrupted by one member of the Trinity and you had to shift your thinking and the result, what did it, what, how it resulted in transformation?
John Van Lenten (14:19)
Mm.
Well, I mean, I can think of a lot of them. I don't know which one he would want me to share right now, but I'll just use one of the words of Jesus that you encouraged us to really think differently about, and it's regulate how you see.
Rob Dayton (14:35)
Hmm.
John Van Lenten (14:36)
You know, this was one of the ones where, well, I think it was that word, but I had an idea of what that meant. And I think it's true. It does mean those things. But the idea of changing my viewpoint on everything and everyone.
is a much more universal and powerful picture than what I was thinking about, protect your eyes, right? Protect your eyes from a lustful thought, from a lustful sight or something like that.
Rob Dayton (15:01)
Don't look at that. Don't look at that.
John Van Lenten (15:04)
Yeah, that's right. Protect your eyes, regulate your eyes. And there's wisdom in that. There are times to do that. It is a good first line of defense in many cases. However,
to
change the way that I see people for my first response. I like to think about my natural response.
and my supernatural response and I want my supernatural response to become my natural response, right? The thing that comes to me naturally. to change the way that I see people, to see them as image bearers, to see them the way Jesus did, I think of Matthew 9.36, Jesus is with his disciples and he sees a flood of people and he gives them an insight into his heart. He says when Jesus saw the crowds, he had compassion on them.
because they were harassed and helpless like sheep without a shepherd. That's the way Jesus sees people. He sees people as people that need his love, that need his shepherding, that need his care. And I want that to be the way that I see people. So that was a shift of, know, John, yes, protecting your eyes might be wise in some places, but change the way you see people and even circumstances, right? Circumstances, see them as the faith, Jim. People see them as objects of Jesus' love that you may have an opportunity
to give them a glimpse into.
Rob Dayton (16:19)
Wow, that is so cool. I love that example. And I think what you said, occurs to me that when you say you took it as, okay, don't look at that. Don't look at this. If I look at that, it's bad for me. that occurs to me as like a doing. Well, how do I change my doing versus the conclusion you came to, which is how do I change my thinking?
You know, you have to change your thinking to see people different than you already do. And I got to tell you, if I was to write this book again, if I was to write it over again, maybe I will. got, I got another book coming about nine mindsets. Maybe I'll include it in there, but every single word of Jesus, when you read it and you understand it, one of the most powerful questions you can ask yourself is,
Addressing one member to the Trinity would be my emphasis. Who do I need to become to live that word? Who do I need to become? What's my responsibility in the way I think?
And that doing is actually comes from thinking.
Everyone is behaving perfectly as the way the world occurs to them. The way the world occurs to them is what you think about everything. again, back to that. If you don't change your thought, you won't change your behavior. So actually asking what's the mindset? Who do I need to become to live this word is a powerful way of getting to the doing, because once your mind is changed, you will actually do the thing better.
John Van Lenten (17:52)
Yeah.
Rob Dayton (17:52)
You know, you'll
do it. And I would say for me and looking like I don't know if you were talking about lust, but looking at things, but like when I see a beautiful woman, my response now is, that's incredible. Jesus, your creation. you know, I'm
John Van Lenten (18:07)
Yeah.
Rob Dayton (18:08)
sorry for the for those of us, me included, who are not as beautiful, but like
We are wired scientifically to notice like certain attributes of beauty. It's just, from a baby. It's all hardwired in there. So it must be part of our design. So instead of the thinking, I can't look at that. It's a different mindset of celebration. then as we talked about in last, it's like, okay, I'm going to move into this whole person versus body parts. think of, I think of woman as a whole person.
That's where I want to angle my thoughts. So, you know, what does
John Van Lenten (18:40)
Mm.
Rob Dayton (18:41)
she need? What, is, what is God doing in her life? How does that, how do you process what I just said there? Cause that's pretty wild. That's pretty wild.
John Van Lenten (18:48)
Well,
it's funny I'm laughing because you told me this a few weeks ago on the phone and yesterday I was on my bike and I like to cycle and so I saw a woman that looked, she might have been attractive. I'm training myself though not to take that second look because I think what you're talking about there's a level of maturity there, a spiritual maturity
Rob Dayton (19:07)
Mm-hmm.
John Van Lenten (19:07)
that I'm not...
I'm not sure yet where that is gonna go, know, in terms of my heart, my application of it, but I started laughing out loud because I did what you said. I did what you said and I just thank God. I said, thank you God for creating women, how amazing they are, how beautiful they are. I thanked him for my wife. So I don't know, I got a long way to grow probably in that word, but it just happened yesterday. So I was laughing about it as I was riding along and yeah.
Rob Dayton (19:33)
You regulated how you saw that's beautiful.
John Van Lenten (19:35)
Yeah, yeah, I did.
Rob Dayton (19:36)
mean, it's, so beautiful. And like there's how many different landscapes has God created? And, know, I'm partial
John Van Lenten (19:42)
Yeah.
Rob Dayton (19:43)
to Yosemite. Like I go to Yosemite and I flip out.
John Van Lenten (19:46)
You know what's really, really interesting, Rob? You know the word repent, right? Change your mind, metanoia.
Rob Dayton (19:50)
Yes.
John Van Lenten (19:51)
But something that he's been pressing on my heart about the last couple of years is I thought about the word repent always as turning away from sin. That's
Rob Dayton (20:01)
Hmm
John Van Lenten (20:01)
just the way that I thought about it. And I used to really not know it meant change your mind. I knew I thought it was more about turning around. And of course, a real genuine repentance does lead to a turning around in some cases. However, He gave me this beautiful thought one day about repentance.
says, you know John don't focus so much on turning from on changing your mind from think about changing your mind towards
I love that hymn, turn your eyes upon Jesus, look full in his wonderful face and the things of earth will grow strangely dim. Don't focus on the things of earth that you want to grow strangely dim, focus on his beautiful face and the other thing will happen. So this beautiful perspective of repenting towards something instead of repenting from something, just because of my upbringing, that's been a powerful, freeing, joyful thought for me in terms of changing my mind and repenting.
Rob Dayton (20:53)
That's
powerful. And the science is there, you know, atomic habit talks about the science of when you change a habit, you, you say you have an existing habit that you don't like. You take the existing habit and you, you reform it into something new, keeping the same cue, maybe the reward, but the actual action in the middle is something you move toward versus stopping. You move toward something else. So that's, that's super powerful. Well,
Man, I could talk to you about mindsets all day. I love talking about it right now. Let's shift to the is this the first year you've done the challenge? Okay. huh.
John Van Lenten (21:30)
challenge yes I read the book last summer we did it kind
of after our journey group we have a break for about three months in the summer so we went through the book last year and did the journaling but we didn't do the full challenge
Rob Dayton (21:42)
Okay, so what's the difference? I gotta know like, tell me tell me what's shifting for you. I mean, it may be a second pass. I don't know. How do you how does it occur to you?
John Van Lenten (21:50)
Yeah, last year we did five a week, so it was a little bit of a longer period of time. It was a summer. But it didn't include any of the physical challenges. And so I'm finding that to be really powerful as well as a companion to this. I love the...
the parallelism of training our body, right, and training our mind, right? I love you guys have talked about it. By the way, I love the podcasts. I'm listening to it every day. I love the guests you have on. You can feel the power and conviction and life change that has occurred in people's lives. So way to go and thank you to all of you folks that have done these podcasts. They're really encouraging.
many of us. But I love the idea of training our body, mind over body, and of course spirit in charge of both eventually, hopefully now, but becoming more more true. But it's given me, a really cool perspective of perhaps even mundane things. That if I treat them as training exercises, they take on a sacred component.
So I'm cycling up the hill the other day, my legs are saying stop, my lungs are saying stop,
Rob Dayton (22:59)
Right.
John Van Lenten (23:00)
and I say no.
We're gonna keep going and guess what? I am building my following Jesus muscle right now. So it gives it a new perspective. Instead of I'm just gonna say no because I wanna get stronger physically. No, I'm saying no because I wanna exercise that anti-sin muscle, the following Jesus muscle, whatever we wanna call it. But linking those two together has been really powerful.
Rob Dayton (23:26)
That's really, really cool that you're mentioning that. So what you're doing, I think this is powerful for.
actually reprogramming your brain is that you're, you're getting to that, let's call it the red line. It's called the red line of your body and your body's like saying no. And instead of thinking to yourself, you know, developing a story and that story, we're all telling each other. We're telling ourselves stories all day long about everything. So the story you're telling yourself in the past is I'm going to push harder to grow my body's capability.
And the news story you're saying is I'm going to push my body to grow my authority in all areas of self control.
John Van Lenten (24:05)
Come on. And that one's way more of a powerful motivator than just saying, yeah, I want to get up this hill faster. Like if I think that pedaling up the hill is going to help me follow Jesus more, man, I'm going, you know? So it's way more powerful, right? It's a higher purpose. So that's one cool way that the physical challenge has really, I think,
enhanced the spiritual challenge. I've heard you and others talk about on the podcast like, you're practicing for when you really need it.
Rob Dayton (24:34)
Yes.
John Van Lenten (24:35)
What's the consequences of me not going up the hill or turning around? There are really none, you know what I mean? But if it's gonna strengthen my my mind's dominion over my body, right? And then the spirit in control of both, that's worth something.
Rob Dayton (24:50)
It's so good. then I think it's important to point out that the story you're telling yourself in that moment, if it's disempowering, you will, you will automatically, this is what I notice about my experience. Actually, maybe you tell me about yours, but if I think a disempowering thought, I automatically stop, like I automatically submit to my body's pain
So I was on a spin bike, one time and the instructor, just misheard the, instructor. And instead of, she meant a five minute sprint climb. And I thought it was a three minute sprint climb. So I'm getting, I'm watching the clock and I'm getting to three and I'm like, man, you could do this. You got this. She says two more minutes. And I thought,
no, no. And immediately my legs stopped. And I'm like, OK, you just told yourself a pretty disempowering story versus what you're saying. I think what I would would label what you're saying is a very empowering story is that this is going to serve me in so many areas. And I'm going to I can do this. And it's empowering to help people push through. That's really, really cool. I wanted to ask you, John, about
Cause you mentioned the month, the flash and the, and this workout routine. I didn't, I don't think I put it in the book, but I've been really gravitating to Romans eight, six, and I'll just read it for the mindset on the flesh is death, but the mindset on the spirit is life and peace.
And that seems like it's the perfect rubric for 100X life and Jesus's process of growth that the mind is in the middle. The mind gets to choose and self-control is in the conscious mind. The flesh is the brain that is telling us the stories that in this case, stop, stop, you know, get off the bike here.
And then the spirit saying something different. And, know, of course that looks different from working out or actually loving people. Well, do you, is that your perception of it? Is that like a good depiction of the mind in the middle of the flesh and the spirit?
John Van Lenten (26:58)
Hmm Yeah, I really do Romans 8 it's one of my one of my favorite passages in all the scriptures and
you
Rob Dayton (27:05)
Wow.
John Van Lenten (27:06)
know, talks about the mind controlled by the spirit and and I ask him Regularly, there's a few questions. I ask him regularly one. I want you I well I tell them that I want you to control my mind
to what does it really look like to abide with you? Jesus, what does it really look like to do life with you? I think I'm just scratching the surface of that. But in Romans eight, say that again?
Rob Dayton (27:26)
What are some of the answers to that question?
What are some of the answers to that question? What does
John Van Lenten (27:31)
Hmm
Rob Dayton (27:32)
it look like for you? Things you've learned so far that would be practical? Yeah.
John Van Lenten (27:35)
You mean to abide?
boy, well, I think of other words, right, in terms of abide, remain, to live with, to cohabitate. So what does it look like to walk day by day, moment by moment, being guided by presence of Holy Spirit? I think there's some disciplines that...
play into it. Sometimes abiding can be this theological, philosophical, kind of airy word, but I think there are some concrete things. I have a list of about 15 things that if I practice these things, they are going to put me in a better position to be deeply connected, intimately connected, and experiencing fellowship and communion with the Trinity. And they range from the first thing I do in the morning to the last thing I do at night.
some things in between so I'm still working on those actually practicing them kind of vetting them probably refining them I don't think that list will ever be done but one of the things and in this ties these two concepts together about having our mind controlled by the spirit and abiding is before I go to sleep at night I I know I'm going to relinquish control of my mind
Like
Rob Dayton (28:44)
Wow.
John Van Lenten (28:44)
I'm not going to be able to do that while I'm asleep. Yes, when I go to sleep.
Rob Dayton (28:46)
You mean when you go to sleep, your consciousness is relinquished.
John Van Lenten (28:50)
So I'm laying down, I'm ready to go to sleep, and I know I'm going to relinquish control of my mind. And I say, Father, I know you never slumber nor sleep. Psalm 121.
I want you to control my mind tonight.
Rob Dayton (29:04)
Come on.
John Van Lenten (29:05)
Like I want you to take control. I'm up for dreams, for visions, for whatever it is, but I want it to be of you. And And as I've made that more of a practice, and I'm not perfect at doing it, but as I've made that more of a practice, guess who's the first one on my mind in the morning as well.
Right, so it begins that
Rob Dayton (29:21)
Wow.
John Van Lenten (29:21)
cycle from night to morning and then you begin in a strong place, a firm foundation, then you move into your time of devotion and reading the Word and asking Holy Spirit to teach you and journaling and then you move throughout your day putting His words into practice. So anyway, that's got a little summary of kind of John's how to abide, you know, that I want to grow in and work in because...
While
it talks about in Romans 8, having our mind controlled by the Spirit, he is not intrusive. He's like, you
Rob Dayton (29:54)
No.
John Van Lenten (29:54)
know that song, Jesus Take the Wheel, right? It sounds great,
Rob Dayton (29:56)
Yeah.
John Van Lenten (29:57)
but it turns out he doesn't do that. He's like, I'll tell you where to start. I'll
Rob Dayton (30:01)
He doesn't physically take the wheel.
John Van Lenten (30:03)
tell you how to do it, but John, your hands are the ones on the wheel, and you have the choice whether you're going to go in the direction along with me or your own path. So yeah, that's a...
Probably more than you wanted there, but.
Rob Dayton (30:15)
Yeah, no,
you know, and he can like he can. I've heard crazy stories, you bullets flying through people without ripping the flesh.
John Van Lenten (30:24)
Sure.
Rob Dayton (30:24)
I mean, story after story, he can. But I think it's really important
John Van Lenten (30:27)
Absolutely.
Rob Dayton (30:28)
to to to have agency. The most powerful thing about us is that we get to.
Choose That's perhaps one of the things makes us most like God is we actually get to choose what we're going to do. We were not like animals just
John Van Lenten (30:42)
We were not like him.
Rob Dayton (30:44)
walking on a program. No, we actually have choice. And so,
the antithetical to Jesus, take the wheel guide me through this place. Like, how do you want me to change my thinking? Kind of some of the things we're we're talking about already. How do I change my thinking? I want to double click on the the evening thing.
And what you're doing there because there's so much science and other biblical references to that. things that come to mind is his mercies are new every morning. There's a process in the evening that results in mercy in the morning. People for years for, for, for lifetimes have said, let me sleep on it because
Something happens. Something happens between the time you go to bed and the time you wake up. And I think that the wise counsel of settling matters or don't go to, don't go to sleep angry
The reasons why that's so powerful is that's another way to set your evening and how you're going
John Van Lenten (31:37)
Yeah.
Rob Dayton (31:37)
to think is being angry. And that results in something different. And then I'll also say is your mind actually is more active in the, the evening while you're sleeping than it is during when you're awake. So there's a sign there. And then the other thing to think about is that, thinking during the day is a gathering process and thinking at night is a sorting process. So how you make sense of the world is happening at night.
So this powerful thing that you're introducing to us is actually focus on God Actually praying do you pray to one member of the Trinity or is it just who are you? Who do you who comes to mind most when you're going to bed? How's that work for you?
John Van Lenten (32:16)
Usually too. I pray to Papa, but then I directly address Holy Spirit, invite him to control my mind right out of Romans 8.
Rob Dayton (32:25)
So good.
so, so that invitation and then on the challenge, we're doing this thankfulness exercise, which is another powerful way to just reinforce the best parts of your day, rooted in grateful.
intentional thankfulness that is going to pay such huge dividends in your ability to abide because God is always with us. This is what I recognize is like he's always with he's never going to leave us. The only person that's going to check out here is me. And so the more I can focus and focus his feeling, focus his direction.
Whatever you're focused on, tell me what you're focused on. I'll tell you how you're feeling and I'll tell you where you're going. So focusing on the attributes of God, the presence of God, thanking Him for how He's showing up. All these things are going to move us in a position of deeper abiding. So good, John.
John Van Lenten (33:17)
I tell you Rob, right?
mean if we if we think about our time spent on the planet, right? Perhaps a third of it is spent either getting ready for bed sleeping or waking up in the morning a third
A third of your
Rob Dayton (33:28)
That's a lot!
John Van Lenten (33:29)
entire life. So what are you doing with that one third? I want that time to be his.
Rob Dayton (33:35)
Wow.
John Van Lenten (33:35)
Psalm 63:6 is one of my favorites. It on my bed, I remember you. I think of you through the watches of the night. It's like, is that my mindset when I go to bed? And I'm growing in this. I have to admit that probably the part in this challenge, the 60 day challenge that I am least implementing is the nighttime thankfulness. You might be surprised
Rob Dayton (33:55)
Wow.
John Van Lenten (33:55)
about that.
But it's true, I'm growing in that and I've thought about it already. The next time I go through this, that is going to be a breakthrough for me. I just haven't made it that specific aspect of my nighttime routine. I haven't made it a habit yet, so a practice. So I'm excited to do that next time around or maybe the next 18 days or whatever we have left. I'll kind of break into it more, but anyway.
Rob Dayton (34:21)
That's impactful that you say one third of our life for me might be a little bit more. I'm trying to live longer. So I sleep more like that's pretty powerful for our listeners to like really look at and understand. And that is by design. Like that's part of creation. You can't just stay up. You have to sleep. Sleep is is mandatory for life.
And so, and like I just said, you actually, one of the biggest longevity hacks is getting the right amount of sleep. So it's very critical. Jesus and Papa, when they were designing us must've really thought highly of the importance, the relevance of sleep. So I think that's a really good word to the listener is, Hey, this is large part of your time.
focus that one third like if you could if I could say hey John I got this pill you could take where one third of your life would automatically be abiding in Christ
you'd
John Van Lenten (35:16)
Mm.
Rob Dayton (35:16)
take that pill every day so listeners
John Van Lenten (35:18)
Come on.
Rob Dayton (35:19)
you have the opportunity to actually double down on one third of your time on planet earth to be abiding that is insanely good
John Van Lenten (35:30)
What a return on investment, right? A few minutes before bed in terms of preparation and intentionality. I remember that retreat, you told the story of me announcing that retreat at Calvary, but you remember when we were there, right? It was a powerful, spirit-filled
Rob Dayton (35:42)
I do.
John Van Lenten (35:43)
time and we talked about marinating. As we said goodnight at two in the morning or whatever it was after a crazy night, were like, let's go marinate.
Let's go marinate in that picture of Holy Spirit just enveloping us, of our Father just overshadowing us, right? Psalm 91 and up at the dwelling in the shelter of the Most High, picturing that as the environment that's covering me as I sleep. Wow, wow, what an opportunity.
Rob Dayton (36:10)
So that is so cool.
In other words, are soaking,
Is it new age? think the new age folks have kind of capitalized on some, some real solid God designed things. And meditation is one of them. Meditation is simply focusing the imagination on one thing. What better thing to focus on is God's presence
John Van Lenten (36:28)
Come on.
Rob Dayton (36:28)
and the reality of God's presence. and remember always, always, always your imagination is where your conscious mind is. And you are programming and reprogramming your unconscious mind with each of your conscious.
thoughts. So the more we can soak, marinate in the presence of God, the more we're reprogramming our natural and automatic instincts in the unconscious brain to actually do the behaviors of love, to automatically bring up stories to our conscious mind that are full of love, that are full of worship. I think my favorite season of life was the season where I would actually, I would roll over and you know how you have that moment of consciousness
where you're rolling over. And I'm watching my brain worship God. Like, I didn't like, Whoa, you're you worshiping all night long. Like, what is going on here? This is so cool. I want that back. By the way, I'm looking at some hacks on how to get that back. Holy
John Van Lenten (37:25)
you
Rob Dayton (37:26)
Spirit, please. Well, okay, John, so you're going through this challenge.
we're on day 45 of the challenge. So,
John Van Lenten (37:32)
Okay.
Rob Dayton (37:33)
you know, I think we're almost, I think we're almost only have a quarter left. If I'm doing my math yet, you're
John Van Lenten (37:37)
Yeah, we're just about three quarters.
Rob Dayton (37:39)
better at that than me. So what do you think you're like, what would you say right now has been the biggest change for you in this time around now that you're actually doing the exercise required eating.
I know that you haven't drank for a long time, so that wasn't a hard thing. I always added sugar for you.
John Van Lenten (37:57)
you know, I was, I was, love desserts. I really do. so, and I hit them hard over the holidays. So it, was an adjustment, zero, zero. And I, it's, it's been good. That's one of the ones that I've hit pretty much every day, right? As opposed to the thankfulness meditation. so it's been good. I've, I've enjoyed it. It's empowering to.
just decide you're going to do something and then do it. To be able to walk past dessert at the work, you know, at work sometimes there's desserts out and whatnot and you just, it's empowering to just decide that this is something I'm going to do or not do and then to follow through on it.
think my health, I've lost a few pounds, not that that was really the goal, but this week, yeah,
Rob Dayton (38:39)
But come on, that's amazing.
John Van Lenten (38:41)
it's good. My riding, my cycling felt stronger this week. So I think it's growing, it's cumulative. I'm eating raw carrots, which I've never done in my life. So instead of having a cookie at work for a snack, I'm having raw carrots. So
Rob Dayton (38:58)
love that.
John Van Lenten (38:59)
it's good. It's building some habits in me that I like.
and yeah, I like it. It's good.
Rob Dayton (39:05)
That's
cool. how would you describe your, what would you think is the biggest thing you've transformed in, terms of mindset? Did you put your finger on anything?
John Van Lenten (39:14)
Well,
You know, these 55 commands, and you were talking about this, you've talked about it in many podcasts, the folks that have been on it with you have as well, that this is a fire hose experience.
Rob Dayton (39:24)
Yes.
John Van Lenten (39:25)
to think you can really grasp these, it's a lifetime of growth, but this is such a good way to have an overview of them. But there's these recurring themes that...
make an impact, right? And I like to use the word cumulative. And so there's an accumulative effect of hearing about the life gym, about the faith gym, about renewing your mind, about your mind's control over your body. And so those things are, that's been the most powerful thing for me to really try. Again, I want my natural reaction to become
my supernatural response. The way that I see things, the way that I see maybe unpleasant circumstances or difficult challenges or a difficult interaction with someone that I, my first instinct is becoming, it's not there yet, but is becoming.
And for me, here's the switch, and I've shared this with you a little bit before, the switch is thankfulness on my part. It's like I'm going down a track, it's the John Life track, and then there's something that plops in, in unpleasant circumstances. What am I going to do right at that moment?
Rob Dayton (40:35)
you
John Van Lenten (40:36)
there's a choice. There's a fork in the road or a split in the tracks and I can go down the John Flesh track or the Jesus track and what makes that difference for me is immediately think of being thankful for it
Rob Dayton (40:50)
Come on.
John Van Lenten (40:51)
because what can he do through this and since that's not a natural response, you don't normally give thanks for lousy things
It's like shakes you up. It's like, why would I be giving thanks for that? Okay, and it forces you to, it forces me to think about, okay, what bigger is going on here? What is, what's happening much bigger than this circumstance, much bigger than this interaction is what can be building in my heart.
what does God want to work on
Rob Dayton (41:16)
Hmm.
John Van Lenten (41:16)
in my heart, in my mind, through this circumstance or interaction? What is he trying to do? And that then helps me get down the Jesus track instead of my own track. But it's that switch of thanksgiving that I actually have to throw. That's my choice, is I can have a pity party about it, or I can say thank you God, and as soon as I say that, it's like thank you for what? And it forces me to think, what is he doing in this?
Rob Dayton (41:41)
It's so cool because the way you're describing it, it's a shift of perspective on this person's annoying or this is a challenge or this is I can't believe you just did that or you should be this way to how is my encounter with this difficult circumstance going to grow me? So it's from you switch from other focus to self focus.
Which, uh, and, actually you're saying thankfulness is kind of the switch that gets you there.
John Van Lenten (42:11)
Yeah.
Rob Dayton (42:11)
It almost sounds like a consider pure joy, my brother. if it feels
John Van Lenten (42:14)
Come on.
Rob Dayton (42:15)
like it's halfway to consider, or maybe a little bit more, maybe three quarters of the way to joy in this circumstance.
John Van Lenten (42:21)
Wow, it's so true and and this I was journaling on first Peter one a few months ago as well as James and that passage and then this came along and and it's all tying together
of how I view circumstances. And yes, while you say it turns the focus on me, but the focus of course is beneficial to others because I see them through his eyes. Again, that Matthew 9.36 verse is so powerful. Like what are you doing here? What do you want to do in me and perhaps even through me?
How do you want, if I see this person instead of as an annoyance or as an offender, if I see them as you put it as an image bearer, as I see them as a person who needs to experience your love and maybe you want to show them your love through me, wow.
Rob Dayton (43:12)
Yeah, I don't even know if that's a maybe my instinct is that's not a maybe. think he's always wanting, you know, let your light shine before I'm mad. know,
John Van Lenten (43:20)
Yeah.
Rob Dayton (43:20)
the most powerful word in the Bible is, love. God is love. now there's faith, and love, but the greatest of these is love. So, wow,
John Van Lenten (43:30)
Yeah.
Rob Dayton (43:31)
that's cool. I mean, that's a great way to end.
It's
this shift from how much how much is that worth? Like if you were going to go through life and I told you, for you can be annoyed all your life or for a million bucks, you could actually be joyful in a negative circumstance. I'd be
John Van Lenten (43:46)
Yeah.
Rob Dayton (43:46)
like, I'm all in. Do you have a loan payment plan for me?
John Van Lenten (43:51)
It's
priceless. It's priceless. I was sharing this with my brother back in New Jersey and he just, they just bought a new home and they discovered a bunch of stuff that the seller didn't disclose and you know, so he's having to work through that.
So I tell him we talk about our heart and what's going on and he calls it, I ask him, what'd you ruminate on today? That's his word, forget in the word. What'd you think about? And so he'll be, and I can hear it on his voice, this kind of annoyance, this frustration, this, and I'll say, Tom?
You're in the patience, Jim, today. He's like, you're in the patience, Jim. And so now he's saying it back to me and we laugh and it's priceless. You ask, what is it worth? It's priceless to change
Rob Dayton (44:32)
Come on.
John Van Lenten (44:33)
from a perspective of frustration and anxiety and anger to a perspective of what is God building in me through
Rob Dayton (44:41)
Yes.
John Van Lenten (44:42)
this. It's a game changer.
Rob Dayton (44:45)
So good. I think it is. And those are such good questions to ask each other. And again, like no one loves to be annoyed. I ask this all the time in group settings. I'm like, OK, who wants to who just really enjoys being annoyed? No one likes to be annoyed. And it turns out there's a switch that's internal. You don't even have to be annoyed. It's like what I used to tell my kids. Sometimes I believed it.
is no one can make you feel the way you feel. That's your decision. No one can make you feel anything. So when you say, when you say that you make me, you'd be all wrong because your emotional response and annoyance comes from the programs that are deep within your unconscious brain. They're sending you signals to say, it's time to be annoyed. So I love that freedom from annoyance. May it be so for us and for our listeners.
John Van Lenten (45:38)
Come on.
Rob Dayton (45:38)
Any final words? John Van Lenten so good to have you on the podcast.
John Van Lenten (45:42)
Hmm. Yeah, let's let's keep going You know, he has the abundant life for us, you know, I love You know his commands. They are not burdensome. They are life-giving
His the Bible right the big thick book, right? It's his instruction manual for how to live the abundant life You know, it's
Rob Dayton (46:02)
Phew.
John Van Lenten (46:03)
not a book of of of burdensome restrictive rules It's how to live life the way he designed it to be lived
And it's so great to do it in community to encourage each other, to sharpen each other, challenge each other in these ways. So I'm thankful for you, Rob, and the work that Father downloaded to you and you've been faithful to put on paper. Great encouragement to me and so many others.
Rob Dayton (46:31)
John, thank you so much for this call. It's been wonderful to be with you. Thanks for everything you mean to my life and all your encouragement over the years. really appreciate it. And guys, we will see you next week.
