Ep. 136 | It's Not Good to Be Alone

Written By Jenna Dee

With Jacob Reeve

Apple Podcasts | Spotify

What if the thing making your marriage, your prayer life, and your walk with God feel stuck isn't a lack of knowledge, but a lack of wholeness?

In this episode of the 100xLife Podcast, Rob Dayton sits down with longtime friend and ministry partner Jacob Reeve, founder of The Wholeness Method, for a wide-ranging conversation that moves from the wild early days of planting a house of prayer in downtown Santa Barbara to the science and theology behind what actually makes a marriage thrive.

Jacob shares the story behind the name House of Prayer, a vision he couldn't ignore even when it cost him key partners, and reflects on fasting as a discipline that trains what he calls the anti-sin muscle, the part of the brain that grows every time we tell our body no. From there, the conversation turns to identity, aloneness, and why God's first "not good" in Scripture was about a person having no one else.

The back half of the episode gets practical. Jacob unpacks the four traits of the top 20% of marriages, the eight intimacy blueprints he's studied across more than a thousand couples, and why nervous system regulation, not just communication skills, is often the missing piece in resolving conflict well.

This is a conversation about wholeness in the fullest sense: body, soul, and spirit, aligned and working together, so that love has somewhere real to land.

You'll Hear

  • The vision that led Jacob to name a ministry "House of Prayer," even when it meant losing early partners

  • Why fasting is really about exercising authority over sin, not just self-discipline

  • How the "anterior mid-cingulate cortex" backs up an ancient spiritual practice with modern science

  • Why God's first "not good" in creation was about aloneness, not sin

  • The four traits shared by the top 20% of thriving marriages

  • What nervous system regulation has to do with real intimacy and conflict resolution

  • The eight intimacy blueprints Jacob has identified after studying over 1,000 couples

  • Why vulnerability, not agreement, is what actually creates safety in relationships

Journal Prompt

Holy Spirit, where are you calling me to be congruent in my spirit, soul, and body so that I can practice wholeness?

About Jacob Reeve
Jacob is the founder of The Wholeness Method, a ministry focused on individual, marital, and relational wholeness through the integration of biblical counseling, nervous system science, and practical tools for intimacy and communication. He and Rob co-led House of Prayer in Santa Barbara for over a decade before Rob's move to Bend.

🌐 The Wholeness Method → thewholenessmethod.com

  • Welcome to the 100X Life Podcast, where we activate people who desire to live the words of Jesus and experience the abundant life He promises. I'm your host, Rob Dayton, and I hope this podcast inspires you to put in the work of following Jesus.

    Rob Dayton (00:36)

    Hey 100x lifers, welcome back to the podcast. today I have an incredibly special guest. I know that I'm always excited about my guests, but Jacob Reeve is perhaps one of the most influential figures of my entire life. So excited to be with you, Jacob Reeve. Let me just

    Jacob Reeve (00:54)

    Wow.

    Rob Dayton (00:57)

    let me just talk about you before you give him any more intro. So Jacob Reeve and I met in Santa Barbara.

    Kind of interesting, we met in a season where I was really exploring Holy Spirit. We we actually met and and the connection was so strong. We I knew, and maybe you could tell me what your thoughts were, that we would and be in partnership together. And that played out a number of years. I actually got to know your mom, who worked at the city of Santa Barbara,

    Jacob Reeve (01:23)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (01:24)

    even more so, and your brother, who was a planning

    Jacob Reeve (01:27)

    Right.

    Rob Dayton (01:28)

    commission member, which is so wild to me.

    And then and then you s you called me into a vision for the house of prayer. And it was perfect timing for Nancy and I because we were searching for our community, we were searching for what church really looked like. And this vision of this house of prayer became

    Jacob Reeve (01:49)

    Okay.

    Rob Dayton (01:50)

    such a special, it's become a a a pentacle of our relationship with Jesus and following you into that vision and then

    Jacob Reeve (01:56)

    Okay.

    Rob Dayton (01:57)

    partnering.

    We started at Veronica Springs Church away from downtown. And then as Jacob, as you'll get to know, did something crazy. He he said, Hey, we're renting the the pole the pole training center in the center of town on State Street, the pole

    Jacob Reeve (02:11)

    They're pole dancing, yeah.

    Rob Dayton (02:14)

    dancing center. And so when I entered this room with its black floors and it's just it just felt so icky spiritually, I'm like, okay, Jacob,

    I'm trusting you. And that space became a launch pad for so many incredible Holy Spirit moments. Our families to get were together. Jacob Reeve has a wife,

    Jacob Reeve (02:34)

    Okay.

    Rob Dayton (02:34)

    Kimberly Reeve, and six amazing kids. And my kids and their kids, we got to worship together and do an incredible. It was just an incredible experience. And and you know, maybe we'll talk about that, the craziness of that downtown experience. But

    We are still doing House of Prayer and we're all in different lanes. So the Rob Dayton lane was 100x life. The Jacob Reeve lane is a wholeness, the wholeness method, which we're going to get to because

    Jacob Reeve (02:51)

    Okay.

    Rob Dayton (03:00)

    I really want to talk about your marriage ministry, which has become central to your transformation and what you're really focused on, what you and Kimberly are focused on. Welcome to the podcast, Jacob Reeve.

    Jacob Reeve (03:10)

    Thank you, Rob. It's great to be here. It's pleasure.

    Rob Dayton (03:12)

    Any anything

    I missed or s any occurrences that you have, like about our journey together?

    Jacob Reeve (03:18)

    You know,

    It was one of my favorite times of my life. You know, I had been in ministry and been out of ministry, been back into ministry. And I always felt like I didn't like a lot of things about... I started to judge...

    And all of us judge it's you know, we're supposed to judge we're supposed to judge the spirits and we're supposed to judge everything really and and make decisions about everything and you know, we're not supposed to judge in a negative way each other, but we are supposed to make judgments to lead our lives and and the better judgments you have the better life you'll have and I started to judge theology based on

    the health, the healthiness of it, the fruit that it produced, not external fruit, but more internal fruit, the fruit of the spirit. when I made that transition, that's like actually a huge transition to me to judge the type of theology that you appreciate and listen to and that feeds you based on its fruitfulness rather than some other agenda.

    Rob Dayton (04:24)

    Is that is that kind

    Jacob Reeve (04:24)

    And,

    Rob Dayton (04:25)

    of like the the thought process that led you to the House of Prayer and like designing a new experience

    Jacob Reeve (04:31)

    Yes.

    Rob Dayton (04:32)

    that would take us there?

    Jacob Reeve (04:33)

    Yes, so I started imagining a different wineskin, a different structure. And that wineskin, it had training in it, but it was the whole point was to train to lift people up so that, you know, I wasn't needed anymore.

    Rob Dayton (04:50)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (04:50)

    And so it's basically discipleship. It's basically the 100X life. You know, it's like

    Rob Dayton (04:54)

    Come on.

    Jacob Reeve (04:54)

    mentoring people into maturity.

    and it's not like the structure where, you know, everyone's feeding the top people, you know, it's, it's an inverted triangle, you know, it's an upside down triangle instead of the other triangle.

    Rob Dayton (05:08)

    The

    the leaders are serving and

    Jacob Reeve (05:10)

    Yes.

    Rob Dayton (05:11)

    and and preparing and launching empowering

    Jacob Reeve (05:14)

    And empowering. Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (05:16)

    that's wild. it's interesting, maybe maybe a little background for our listeners, because a lot of people when they think I asked the prayer, they think of IHOP. And we were never associated with IHOP.

    Jacob Reeve (05:24)

    had nothing to do with that.

    Rob Dayton (05:27)

    And also, I don't know what your perspective is, but

    I think that people would come to the house of prayer because of theirs house of prayers like kind of were popping up

    Jacob Reeve (05:35)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (05:36)

    everywhere. And so like we had lots of, you know, immediate friends. But there

    Jacob Reeve (05:39)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (05:40)

    but it really was in your vision, the house of prayer was just from the verse that my house shall be called a house of prayer.

    Jacob Reeve (05:46)

    Yeah, actually, the way that that happened is, like when we are going to start the house of prayer, you know this story, I think, and I did a 50 day fast, 40 days of

    Rob Dayton (05:59)

    It was wild.

    Jacob Reeve (05:59)

    water and then 10 days of coming off of it. before we started that fast, there was already a partnership for

    what was gonna start in Santa Barbara. And there was a few guys that I was meeting with and those guys were like, we wanna fund the whole thing. We have a bunch of money, a bunch of partners and let's do this. And I just thought, this is a gift from God. It's gonna be easy sailing. It's all done for me.

    Rob Dayton (06:24)

    man. Is it ever easy sailing?

    Jacob Reeve (06:28)

    Yeah, through many tribulations.

    Rob Dayton (06:32)

    Right.

    Jacob Reeve (06:33)

    And so, but seven days into that fast, started, you know, that's like right when kind of the black and white come, you know, that comes in a fast. Like when you start.

    Rob Dayton (06:42)

    When you say black and

    white, you you say some great clarity, maybe?

    Jacob Reeve (06:46)

    Yeah, you just start seeing everything very clearly, for what it is. And

    Rob Dayton (06:50)

    Yeah.

    Jacob Reeve (06:51)

    it's I don't know if other people have this, but for me, once I get past about five days in a in a fast, I it's just like no nonsense anymore. There's just like, I don't know if my estrogen drops. Yeah. Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (07:01)

    The distractions like drop. The d the distractions drop and it's just

    a lot of clarity comes.

    Jacob Reeve (07:08)

    Yeah, and so when people are talking, it's like I can see exactly what spirit they're talking out of.

    Rob Dayton (07:12)

    Interesting.

    Jacob Reeve (07:14)

    so, including myself, including my kids, including my wife, like everyone, I just see the source

    Rob Dayton (07:20)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (07:21)

    of everything. And so, during the seven days in, we were in this discussion with other partners, which I love the other guys.

    we're in this discussion, what should we call this place and what should it be? It should be this party nightclub downtown Santa Barbara type of thing. And where there's just God's there and God's encountering people supernaturally, I don't know. We didn't really have it really clear, but we knew we wanted it to be a lot of fun. And we knew we wanted it to be relational. And it wasn't gonna look anything like a...

    a church, you know, like the typical Western church. And so we're kind of wrestling over different names or thinking about calling it encounter or, you know, a couple of different things. And so seven days in, we have this meeting. And I'm like starting to see really black and white, all this stuff. And I have this dream. And in the dream.

    It's actually, it's not a dream. I say that because it's easier to say it's a dream than the truth, something other than a dream, but it happens at night. And I have this a lot.

    Rob Dayton (08:20)

    Was it an op open vision?

    Jacob Reeve (08:21)

    Yeah, so I wake up and it's like, when I wake up, I'm in a vision or a dream or whatever, whatever you wanna call it. And in that, Jesus is at the foot of my bed and I see this like eyes

    Rob Dayton (08:34)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (08:35)

    open, Jesus, and he goes like this.

    He, and he points at me and he says, my house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations. And, and so, and, that's it. And then he vanishes and I'm like, instantly I'm, I'm wide awake. And so then I, I start going, we have to call this place a house of prayer. Like we

    Rob Dayton (08:52)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (08:53)

    just got the name and I don't know why, you know, I don't know if that's just me having a wild dream.

    or if there was some purpose behind that association, because Jesus knows that association.

    Rob Dayton (09:01)

    Yeah. Mm hmm. He does.

    Jacob Reeve (09:07)

    so then I instantly emailed the guys and I'm like, we'll have to call it a house of prayer. I'm really sorry, but you know, and I know that this is gonna create a problem, but I'm, you know, I don't know what to do. I have to obey Jesus. This is what happened.

    Rob Dayton (09:19)

    Yeah.

    Jacob Reeve (09:19)

    I feel like Jesus appeared to me and he just told me what to call it. And so whatever I do,

    Rob Dayton (09:23)

    How did they respond?

    I don't like even remember how did they respond? Was it poorly?

    Jacob Reeve (09:28)

    They said, no, we can't call it that. And

    Rob Dayton (09:31)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (09:31)

    so the next day we had this long conversation. They're like, we can't call it that. I'm sorry, that does not fit our vision. That's just going to scare away all the people that we would want to come there and right off the bat. And so we had this long discussion and we had to part ways. that was we and we didn't really part ways. were like,

    Rob Dayton (09:50)

    Yeah.

    Jacob Reeve (09:50)

    we're all mature about it. We're like,

    We understand, I understand

    Rob Dayton (09:54)

    Yeah.

    Jacob Reeve (09:54)

    they can't invest in something that they're not fully, that's not their vision. And I can't, I'm trapped. I can't disobey that, seeing Jesus and him telling me what to do. And so we all just blessed each other and went on and.

    Rob Dayton (10:09)

    And that's the great way

    to do it. I love that because you're you know, you're you're you're staying. Jesus says be reconciled with your brother. You're staying in reconciliation. You're blessing each other.

    Jacob Reeve (10:18)

    Yeah,

    there was no like retreat of friendship

    Rob Dayton (10:22)

    Animosity.

    Jacob Reeve (10:23)

    at all. And in fact, one of those, there's two of those brothers and one of them was very involved, very, very involved in everything and continued to support everything and very involved. And the other one, we stayed friends.

    Rob Dayton (10:36)

    Yeah, it's a kind of an interesting dance when you obey

    God and also honor your brother and sister. So you

    Jacob Reeve (10:41)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (10:42)

    and I had like, I don't know if you remember this, but you and I had a meeting with a pastor who will remain nameless. and I think you were day 30 or 35, you were getting some wood from someplace, and then we met at a coffee shop, and it was just crazy to see someone on day 35 of a fast. Do you remember that?

    Jacob Reeve (10:58)

    Right.

    Yeah. Yeah, it was day 37. And for some reason,

    Rob Dayton (11:02)

    Unbelievable.

    Jacob Reeve (11:03)

    I got it in my mind that I needed all this bamboo. And so I went and on day 37 of water, I went and cut down this entire bamboo forest and loaded it on my suburban and like, so much of it, hundreds and hundreds of pounds of bamboo. And I was by then I was going a little bit crazy, I think.

    But I this whole vision of

    Rob Dayton (11:22)

    I mean y it's

    truly on the road to death right there, day thirty seven.

    Jacob Reeve (11:26)

    Well, well, there's the ancients call, call this thing a complete fast. And that's what Jesus did when he did his 40 day fast. And a complete, a complete fast is when you go from the time that you start being hungry, which is usually around day three or four, until your body starts to die, which is anywhere between day 25 and day 50, depending on the person.

    And it's the time it takes your blood to go through and eat everything it can eat that would be a detox. And use this fuel. So your blood starts to go through, as soon as you stop eating, your blood for a little while keeps on trying, for about three days, keeps on trying to get fuel from your intestines. But then once that fuel is gone, then it goes,

    It's time to start detoxing. And so it'll go through your whole body and start eating the disease, eating fat, eating muscle, eating everything but your organs.

    Rob Dayton (12:17)

    The it's the scientific

    term would be ketosis. That and most people are

    Jacob Reeve (12:21)

    Yes. Yes.

    Rob Dayton (12:23)

    listening will be familiar with that. So yeah, your body switches its fuel to fat, but also what you're saying is it takes out all the

    Jacob Reeve (12:33)

    Yeah, anything that isn't vital for itself, it'll eat as fuel. And so that includes all your disease and all that, you know, blood clots. You know, for me, I got healed of like six or seven things during that last fast.

    Rob Dayton (12:48)

    Your s yeah,

    your sinuses, I think, issues went away or

    Jacob Reeve (12:51)

    I have

    broken rib right here. It made my shoulder be able to move again. You know,

    Rob Dayton (12:55)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (12:56)

    you're going through all the places where your body's inflamed, they're getting uninflamed or whatever the word is for not inflamed.

    Rob Dayton (13:05)

    Do you remember

    one of the things you told me about fasting? And I actually put I think I put this in in 100x life, but this comes from Jacob Reeve, because I call I was on a fast and I was ministering to a bunch of guys up in Bass Lake, and I called Jacob complaining that I was preparing food while I was fasting. And and he's like, dude, do you I don't know if you remember? It's like

    The reason to fast is to exercise your authority over sin. And I was like, what? He's like,

    Jacob Reeve (13:35)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (13:37)

    and what's so cool about that, and now that I think about that in the context of now written writing this book and moving to mindsets, is that is a complete mindset shift. Like if you think that fasting is taking authority, using your exercising your authority over sin, that changes everything about the fast.

    Jacob Reeve (13:53)

    Yeah.

    Yeah, because sin is an appetite.

    Rob Dayton (13:59)

    Yes.

    Jacob Reeve (14:01)

    because your desire for food is the fundamental appetite that we all have. And so the original

    Rob Dayton (14:07)

    The original sin over food.

    Jacob Reeve (14:09)

    sin of Adam and Eve was for a piece of food. And then for their child,

    for their children, Cain and Abel, the reason why God loved Abel and not Cain was because Abel gave the first fruits offering, meaning he gave food, he practiced self-control over food before he ate and Cain ate and then gave what was left over as a sacrifice. And then you go on through the entire Old Testament, it's all about food. And so like every sacrifice, when God set up the sacrificial system,

    everything that was being sacrificed was food. And it was not just food, it was the tastiest food. like the fat portions, why sacrifice the fat portions? It's because that's the yummiest food back then.

    Rob Dayton (14:50)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (14:52)

    so it's just like everything that God did in the Old Testament with Israel was to help them gain self-control over themselves. He didn't wanna control them, he wanted them

    Rob Dayton (15:02)

    Great.

    Jacob Reeve (15:02)

    to control themselves. And it's so like...

    The whole Old Testament and the first fundamental, this is what I teach people that want to understand about fasting. The first thing to understand about fasting is that it's about, it's a discipline over yourself. And so if you want to master yourself, fasting is like the fastest

    Rob Dayton (15:21)

    Come on.

    Jacob Reeve (15:21)

    practice to do that. So it's like you gain self-control.

    Rob Dayton (15:23)

    Yeah, and it's really interesting because you gain self-control.

    And Jacob, I don't know if you know this, but like science is totally caught up with this. And I've been really fascinated

    Jacob Reeve (15:32)

    I know.

    Rob Dayton (15:33)

    with this thing called the anterior mid-singular cortex, called the AMCC. It's a part of your brain.

    Jacob Reeve (15:38)

    the

    Rob Dayton (15:41)

    Everything everything runs through this part of your brain and it grows or contracts on one simple thing.

    It grows when you tell your body no when it wants to do something, or yes when it does not want to do something. If you if you as long as the body does not want to do it or wants to do something, you say no, this part of the brain grows. It's truly the anti-sin muscle. Isn't that crazy? And then in a 100xLife we take that whole

    Jacob Reeve (16:03)

    Interesting. Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (16:08)

    philosophy and put the work out, all denying your body, denying your body, denying your body.

    is a way to develop an anti-sin muscle for a time when it actually is sin.

    Jacob Reeve (16:18)

    Right. Yeah. Yeah.

    the devil's strategy has never changed. He just partners with our carnality. And so it's so simple, but he doesn't need to change it because we're

    Rob Dayton (16:29)

    Totally.

    Jacob Reeve (16:30)

    so weak. We are so susceptible to our carnality, which is, know, our set our sensual desires is where he gets us. The five senses is, you know, seeing and hearing is about entertainment.

    tasting and smelling is about food and then touching is sex or whatever else gets you gets you gets you off. So it could be drugs could be substance could be whatever.

    Rob Dayton (16:49)

    Right. Right.

    Yeah, That's a great trish transition

    Jacob Reeve (16:51)

    Okay.

    Rob Dayton (16:53)

    for us because I think that both you and I have ministries that are in the business of self-control and actually gaining that ability. And then actually then where do you go from there with that ability in terms of love? I I don't want to leave House of Prayer if there's something that you in particular you wanna

    talk about before we go there, but like, in that in your house of prayer journey, we we started the house of prayer, we got this place downtown. What would what would you say is the thing about it that the the one s simple, broad construct that made it one of the best seasons of your life?

    Jacob Reeve (17:24)

    this rule, which is the people who are closest, I just wanted to make sure that they were the priority and never the group, never the big thing was the priority. It was always the people, the closest people were the priority and it was always having fun, like enjoying those people and enjoying being together. And if we enjoyed being together and it was refreshing being together as a core group.

    It didn't matter the rest of it. Like we were being fed, being together was like life giving for all of us, I felt like.

    That's a big secret. Just enjoy each other.

    Rob Dayton (17:54)

    That's so cool. And and then

    yeah, that's just enjoy each other. It's so simple. Like when you're with

    Jacob Reeve (18:00)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (18:01)

    someone, you know, even when there's tension, how do you enjoy someone? That's so amazing. And then in the House of Prayer, we had many Friday nights where, you know, we did like as you described, it was like a downtown party and a lot of people came.

    How how does that whole season of those parties and overwhelming and different p styles of people coming and going? We never really saw the same people too often. How does that all occur to you?

    Jacob Reeve (18:27)

    Yeah.

    I loved it. you know, there's like what you get when you normally go to churches is control. Like the leaders are going to control the whole service.

    and it's going to look like this, and we're going to provide this service

    Rob Dayton (18:42)

    Exactly.

    Jacob Reeve (18:43)

    for everyone, which is a nice service. Sometimes it's a very nice service. But what we focused on is training people and then using Friday night as a place for those people to interact. And so pretty much every Friday night, the entire room was interacting. And there's a sound, there's a sound that it's so hard to find the sound. And it's the sound when...

    when an entire room is encountering the Holy Spirit together. And there's some people that

    Rob Dayton (19:11)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (19:12)

    are crying, some people that are laughing, some people that are worshiping, some people that are talking, some people that are singing. And it's like, everyone is fully engaged, fully engaged with God and each other. And that sound is very rare. If I could find that sound, I would go there.

    Like that would be the place that I would wanna go.

    Rob Dayton (19:31)

    Yes.

    Jacob Reeve (19:32)

    I don't go to church that often now. I mean, I'll go and speak and I meet with pastors and I'm on elder boards and stuff like that. But I don't always go to Sunday church, primarily because, don't know, if I'm not feeding and I'm not getting fed, then why go? There's more fruitful things to do.

    And I do go all week long with.

    Rob Dayton (19:50)

    Wow, stop right there.

    Stop right there because that really helps me. If you're not feeding and you're not being fed, you know, most people would say, if I'm not being fed, why am I going? But I love that you're adding, if I'm not being fed and I'm not participating in feeding, that's the challenge. And you're talking about this sound that is so rare. And I would totally agree with you that those those nights.

    were some of the most precious experiences. And one of the things about you, Jacob, that I think is so profound, and I wanna I wanna give our listeners access to it right now, is that you have this really good ability to introduce people to hearing from the Trinity in a in just the most

    Jacob Reeve (20:32)

    Hmm

    Rob Dayton (20:34)

    unassuming, natural way.

    And and I know as a house of prayer, commonly we would we would say, okay, get in threes, everybody can hear from God. Let's practice the art of hearing from God for each other and and receiving it or not receiving it. What would you say to help anyone out there who just doesn't feel like they hear from God? What what would what would be your your strategy there?

    Jacob Reeve (21:03)

    I think you can't not hear from God. I think.

    Rob Dayton (21:07)

    Yeah

    that's awesome.

    Jacob Reeve (21:09)

    Like, God's first language isn't English, that's for sure. And God's first language is so fundamental to our existence that we don't even recognize it because it's so familiar.

    Rob Dayton (21:20)

    And so what so what do I do if I'm I mean, that is so profound. We can't not hear from God. If you start with that mindset, I think that that opens your ears. And then what next?

    Jacob Reeve (21:31)

    Well, I think, you know, there's a danger there. And the danger that probably people would think is like, oh, then everything is God. And in a way, yes, everything is God. If you believe, if you're a Christian, you believe God is omnipresent, then you believe that everything is God because you can't be omnipresent without everything being God. And so I think one of the, you know, again, I go back to what's healthiest and one of the healthiest things, I think this is actually one thing

    where Christians are very healthy as opposed to non-Christians. And it's that things have a purpose. Like this happened because of a purpose. I'm okay, God's at work. This thing that could be perceived as negative.

    Rob Dayton (22:08)

    All things are working together for my good.

    Jacob Reeve (22:11)

    for the good of those who love God and who are called according to his purpose, like the scripture says. And that's a strength because...

    If you don't have that belief, and that's a belief, that's a spirit, that's a part of the spirit of God is that belief that God is there. And that's a judgment over your thoughts. If negative thoughts come in and they're like, see, you have bad luck and all this, just negative things always. And if you go, no, actually, I believe my spirit's telling me that there's a purpose to this, that God's gonna work, God's gonna do some sort of magic.

    to make this amazing and to work according to my better good. It's gonna work out in my favor. I win because of God. Like I'm just on that track of winning no matter what. And just that psychological mindset is a winning mindset. It's hard to lose with that mind. You can't lose with that mindset. With that belief system, you can't

    Rob Dayton (23:02)

    So good.

    Jacob Reeve (23:02)

    lose. It's just impossible. everything's gonna work itself out according to how it's supposed to work out and God has me.

    I'm okay.

    beautiful.

    Rob Dayton (23:10)

    So in that,

    in when you have that that it's beautiful and ha when you have that mindset and you you're thinking that I can't not hear from God, what what would you tell people is a great s thing they can do or think about to really open themselves up to hearing what's already what God's already saying?

    Jacob Reeve (23:26)

    Well, so there's a bunch of different ways. I for Christians, scripture is, you just go to scripture and you ask God to speak to you.

    Rob Dayton (23:37)

    I would say most Christians that I am working with and coaching, the Bible is the most clear source of hearing from God. And then I think what we've learned, particularly through the House of Prayer experience, is that God is we're always hearing from God. We we if you know, raise your hand if you if you're his sheep, and then Jesus says, My sheep.

    hear my voice. So we can all hear. But how do we hear beyond scripture? How do we just, you know, what what do you think it like I've seen you in groups just pause and say, okay, Holy Spirit come, let's just wait. Like is that is it

    Jacob Reeve (24:01)

    Yeah. Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (24:15)

    as simple as that or what would you say?

    Jacob Reeve (24:17)

    Yeah, I think it is as simple as that. I think he's always speaking and it's not a matter of if he's speaking. You know, I think he can be quiet too and that speaks in itself, but every single thing in existence is the word of God.

    Like all of creation is the word of God. Like when he spoke it into existence, it's still all held together by his word. And so if you just look at a wall, that's the word of God. If you look at a person, that's the word of God. Everyone is the word of God. Jesus is the word of God. Creation is the word of God. The stars are the word of God. Our emotions are the word of God. Like everything, everything in all of creation is God's speech.

    It's all held together by his speech. So, I mean, and this is

    Rob Dayton (24:58)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (24:58)

    too big of a concept probably for most people, but if you know that the kingdom of God is within you and that the Holy Spirit is inside of you, then all you need to do is still yourself and let go of your wants. And his voice is he'll tell you the truth. I call it the spirit of truth because and I do counseling. And one of the things that I do for people

    I don't do this every session, but a lot of sessions I'll say, let's go find the truth and the spiritual truth, which, you know, spirit is a word for the unseen or unconscious reality behind our behavior. And so why are we behaving this way? It's because somewhere along the line, we believed something and that belief is an agreement with a spirit.

    And I mean, if we take it to the scientific, you know, like, you know, take the mystery out of what a spirit could mean. It's Pneuma in Greek. It's wind or breath. The key characteristic of wind, breath or spirit is movement. And movement is the thing that aims you, the thing that directs you. In other words, it's the judgments by which you judge your thoughts, wants and feelings. So if you have an evil spirit,

    Your evil spirit is telling your thoughts. Don't think that way. Think this evil thought. It's telling your wants. Don't want this nice thing. Want this evil want. It's telling your feelings. Don't feel this peaceful feeling. Feel this war feeling. And it's judging you so that it makes your operating

    Rob Dayton (26:19)

    Mm.

    Jacob Reeve (26:19)

    system bent on evil. It's the same thing with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, it...

    Rob Dayton (26:24)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (26:25)

    He drives you toward holiness, which is the fruit of holiness is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, all the rest. And so it's this bent on you're judging your thoughts, you're judging your wants and you're judging your emotions based on the goodness of God, the things that are loving, the things that are joyful, the things that are peace-making, the things that are patient.

    You have an internal judge that's the holiest, the best judge. And I always tell people, people are afraid of receiving the Holy Spirit as the judge, like they're afraid of God judging them. But I guarantee you, the Holy Spirit is a way kinder judge than you will ever be to yourself. The Holy Spirit is the kindest of all the

    Rob Dayton (27:07)

    Yes.

    Jacob Reeve (27:07)

    judges, and He's the most truthful, but He's also the most gracious.

    He'll always tell you the absolute truth from God, which is so kind. It breaks your heart. It's so kind. The things that he tells you about yourself. And it's the things that will make you whole. That's the wholeness method is coming into alignment with who he says you are.

    So anyway, the...

    Rob Dayton (27:27)

    That's so cool. You know what's really

    interesting? I I don't know I don't know if you've read Imagine Heaven. Have you read that book?

    Jacob Reeve (27:34)

    No, I've heard of it though.

    Rob Dayton (27:35)

    Okay, so it's near-death experiences. So people who go to heaven come back and tell us what happened. And everything you're explaining right now is exactly what they they describe. That truth is not withheld. When Jesus does the life review, he's reviewing their life. Truth is not withheld, but it's done with such love and gentleness that it's beautiful and instructive. And you have the ability to.

    to receive it because it's coming from

    Jacob Reeve (28:01)

    Yeah

    Rob Dayton (28:01)

    him. So I love that you're talking about that. Not let's not wait till heaven. Let's just do it now.

    Jacob Reeve (28:05)

    Yeah.

    Well, there's no, the thing that the gospel is supposed to fix is aloneness and the fear of separation.

    And the fundamental fear of mankind is the fear of separation.

    Rob Dayton (28:14)

    Wow. Say more about that.

    Jacob Reeve (28:16)

    So yeah, in Adam and Eve, they were tricked into believing God was different than other. Therefore, he's in competition and he's potentially, you know, if God is other than everything else that he created as other and we need to be on our guard, we need to be insecure. And as soon as the sin, the great sin of, you know, the fall of man,

    was a fall into insecurity, is a fall out of connection or attachment to God or oneness with God. And when we fell into that insecurity, that's where all sin is born,

    Rob Dayton (28:49)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (28:49)

    is out of the place of aloneness or separation, because we believe that everything's scarce instead of abundant. We believe that we're not safe instead of totally secure. We believe that we're alone instead of completely connected.

    And so all of our fears are based off of this disconnection. And I forgot why we're on this. What was the question that you asked originally?

    Rob Dayton (29:13)

    Well, we're talking about how to connect with with how to hear from God. And one of the things that you're causing me to think about is another conversation that I had with you that really helped me. And that is that because we're seated in Christ in heavenly places, when we pray, it's more accurate to say we're praying from Jesus than to Jesus, which is this connectedness.

    Not alone, we're we're so utterly connected, we're actually apart now, indoctrinated into the Trinity. And how does all that thought and mindset? I guess what you're saying is if we have the mindset of connectivity, and this is what it is, then hearing becomes more simple and expected because we are so connected.

    Jacob Reeve (29:55)

    Yeah, absolutely like I I feel like

    everywhere I go, it's very easy to hear God. I hear him as my conscience. He's so one with me that he's just like, hey, look at that person over there is feeling sad. And it's like, I take that as God. Or there's a piece of trash on the ground. Are you gonna steward this place or are you gonna leave it? And

    Rob Dayton (30:17)

    Yes. Yes.

    Jacob Reeve (30:19)

    so, or like,

    That tree looks beautiful. Pause.

    Rob Dayton (30:23)

    Yeah,

    it's almost like if you have a conviction of love that's if you have a conviction that's rooted in love, it is God with you, speaking through you, to you.

    Jacob Reeve (30:32)

    Yeah,

    totally. And I also think that all the emotions, like if you have fear, that's a way to understand God too. And God in you and God in other people, not that God's fearful, but that there's truth underneath. why be afraid? What's the truth behind that fear? You know, and it always comes down to separation. And like you have a lack somehow.

    or like that you're not eternally safe. Like what? It's just all these things

    Rob Dayton (31:00)

    Right. Right. Well like

    Jacob Reeve (31:01)

    that are like posing our unbelief. But yeah, I think that, you know, there's all the teachings about Rhema and, you know, the personal word. And one of the things that I do when I'm meeting with people is I'll have them close their eyes and I'll...

    You know, there's a lot of different scenarios you can bring them into. Like, I'll bring people to their birth, I'll bring people to their entrance into heaven, I'll bring people to different points of their lives, I'll bring people, you know, and I'll just say...

    Rob Dayton (31:28)

    When you say bring bring

    to what you mean by that is you're saying, Hey, let's think about this time, you're just inviting them.

    Jacob Reeve (31:33)

    Yeah, I'll say, close your eyes and I

    want you to imagine this thing. And then let's see if God speaks to you out of that. And so then I'll paint a picture for them in their imagination and I'll invite Jesus into that picture. You know, like one of the last ones that I did is I said, I want you to picture God as like an actual huge body, like floating in outer space above the earth. And I want you to now picture yourself, you know,

    flying, flying up there. And I want you to go all the way into his heart. Now you're standing inside of his heart. And I want you to look at yourself and your situation down in the little country that you're in, in the little state that

    Rob Dayton (32:08)

    From his heart.

    Jacob Reeve (32:09)

    you're in. Yeah, from his heart and the little town that you're in, the little house that you're in. Tell me what his heart says about you and your situation right now.

    Rob Dayton (32:17)

    What happened?

    Jacob Reeve (32:18)

    Wild, it's wild. Amazing, like.

    That was wild. I mean, I'm not inclined to tell you what other people go through, it was, it's very rare when one of these things doesn't become something very, like a lifetime word, you know, that they receive that they're like, okay, this is a fundamental part of my identity now.

    Rob Dayton (32:37)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (32:38)

    Or, you know, because it's like when you recognize Jesus speaking to you or God speaking to you, it resonate, the truth resonates.

    Rob Dayton (32:45)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (32:45)

    And if it's true, it's going to stick. You know, if it's true, it's going to be like that. There's something to that. That was actually I think that was actually the word of God. Like one one

    Rob Dayton (32:55)

    Yeah.

    Jacob Reeve (32:56)

    person recently was like, wow, this is feels very real. I'm like, I think it might be. And he's like,

    Rob Dayton (33:02)

    I think it is. I think it's real.

    Jacob Reeve (33:05)

    like, I'm talking to Jesus right now. And I said, yeah, I think you are. And he said, can I?

    Rob Dayton (33:10)

    Is isn't

    it a ripoff that like, I mean, we're the most churched nation on planet earth right now. And so many people have not this experience that is your, it's your right as a member of the Trinity, indoctrinated, it is your right to speak freely and to have this conversation with God. Isn't that just crazy to you that it's not more common? How how do we change that?

    Jacob Reeve (33:34)

    Yeah, I think maybe

    think we overcomplicate it and then we make it we make we love to bring arguments and we love to divide like our hit I I always go back to history. I I've I've I've a huge history buff. I love church history especially and if you follow church history I don't I mean I could talk for ten hours on how we got to where we're at. And but long story short, somewhere along the line

    Protestantism. You you learn a lot about the organization based on the name they give themselves. So, you know, Orthodox means original, Catholic means universal, Protestant means protest, evangelical means evangelize, you know, Pentecostal means Pentecost. All all of these point to their number one thing that they think is most important.

    And the thing that they bend

    Rob Dayton (34:21)

    Mm-hmm.

    Jacob Reeve (34:21)

    all of their services and all of their function around. And so before the Protestants came and Luther came, universalism was the thing. And so oneness was the thing to strive for. And the Roman

    Rob Dayton (34:33)

    The central core focus is oneness.

    Jacob Reeve (34:35)

    Yes, and so the Romans and the Romans, you know, some of them

    Wanted to use that for political reasons. Some of them might have wanted to use that for godly reasons. It's a big mix, like it always is. but they created oneness. Everything they created a language, Latin, around that oneness. They created an education system. Like all of the stuff that Rome did was to create oneness in all the lands that they conquered. And so they created a religion that was spoken in the same language so that anywhere across the world,

    If some soldier was in India fighting battles, he could go to church or mass and hear the same Latin message that his family in Spain was hearing, you know, and feel like that sense of, okay, I'm connected. And it's very str that's a that's an amazing feeling, you know, to to feel like you're on the other side of the planet and ste yet on this day, my family's doing the same thing as I am, and they're hearing the same thing that I am. That's

    That's kind of beautiful. And then the Protestants

    Rob Dayton (35:31)

    Beautiful.

    Jacob Reeve (35:31)

    came and they said, no, no, no. It's all based on agreement. And not not exactly. They're like, hey, you guys, you Catholics have gotten so far from the original message of Jesus. You know, you're making people pay to get people out of purgatory and all this. You know, it's like in insane unbiblical practice. It's wandered so far. And so

    The initial protest from Luther was just like, hey, can we get back to the Bible? And can we get back to the origin of Christianity? And it's like, you know, there's like, let's have some accountability here, which is great. and Luther, I don't think, wanted to have division in the church. I don't think he ever imagined that. But then division came. And and then, you know, then the less educated people started really dividing and

    And we entered the 30-year war, which is Christians killing Christians all across Europe. And the Protestant new Protestants were killing Catholics, and Catholics were killing Protestants, and there's a big divide. So any of the anyone that wanted to be Protestant had to either die or move north, basically. And anyone who wanted to stay Catholic had to either die or move south. So Europe kind of got divided by Catholic and Protestant, North and South. And and then the subsequent

    Denominations that came out kind of used that model to justify dividing anytime there was a disagreement. So they became united not on Christ, but on theology, on knowledge, which is kind of like Gnosticism. It's like special knowledge makes you makes you saved. And a lot of those people would be afraid of Gnosticism, say, you know, and saying Gnosticism is bad, but they're actually dividing on Gnosticism. Like this special way that we say the Lord's Prayer and these certain set of baptisms and this.

    This is the camp that actually saves you instead of just your union with Christ. And and so we bring that to today, and there's a lot of division. People, people thinking that theology saves them. You know, it you know, Jesus crucified all sin, even bad theology.

    Rob Dayton (37:24)

    Yeah. Yeah, he did. And and and it'd

    Jacob Reeve (37:24)

    Which is crazy, he became sin and crucified. He

    Rob Dayton (37:28)

    John the Baptist is saying, Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, which is cosmos. And I mean, he's actually saying everybody, which is crazy. And so tell

    Jacob Reeve (37:38)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (37:39)

    me, tell me about so this we we meet because we agree and we're saved by theology.

    How is that cutting us off from hearing God's voice? Would you can you connect those dots?

    Jacob Reeve (37:50)

    It

    it it goes back to the root of the Garden of Eden. It just shows anyone that does that is still living by Adam and Eve. They still think that we're separate. They still think that there's an in-crowd and an out crowd. They still think I got it right and everyone else got it wrong. There's just such a big ego. It's they move from s independent ego, which ego is the small separated self. That's what that word means. It means it means the I or

    you know, I'll say the sin nature is is when you think of yourself as independent from God and others. And you start acting as an independent little island that that everything is scarce. You need to hoard, you need to protect yourself, you need to build walls so that no one could get in. The only way you go out is if it's self serving. So you become like a narcissist when y you can't help but become a narcissist when you're in the sin nature to some d s to some degree. It's like love, like

    You know, I don't like I I don't ever la label people like this, but I meet with people that have n narcissistic tendencies. And fundamentally, like what a narcissistic tendency is, in my opinion, is the inability to actually love. And it's the inability to actually practice the fruit of the spirit.

    Rob Dayton (38:56)

    Yeah.

    Jacob Reeve (38:56)

    Like love is the ability to favor someone regardless of your own self-interest, to to

    favor and to serve someone else regardless of self-interest.

    Rob Dayton (39:04)

    Even if even if they're your enemies.

    Jacob Reeve (39:06)

    Even if they're your enemy yeah, that's what Jesus says. Agape love. Agape love is is choosing someone else's favor regardless of what it does for you. And narcissists can't do that. They just they've been so wounded from their upbringing, usually that they're they've been forced into the survival mode where everything has to serve themselves because they're in a state of panic twenty four seven.

    And it's really terrible. Like I weep for these, I weep for for these men that are and and women

    Rob Dayton (39:32)

    So

    Jacob Reeve (39:32)

    that are like this. And it's the same thing with joy. You can't actually have joy because joy,

    joy has to be self-serving. Peace has to be self-serving. Patience has to be self-serving. You can't actually possess any of these internal qualities because they only to a narcissist, to a true narcissist, you can't.

    Everything has to be for survival. There's nothing that can be f for real. It you you've lost yourself. And it's so heartbreaking. So the road back to that is to start to start unraveling that that inability and to start being able to see other people again. And to start, you know, first I would say to come back to peace with God and to stop seeing God as other. That's number one. To start seeing yourself as one in God.

    Rob Dayton (40:12)

    Which which which is a new mindset. That's a whole new mindset.

    Jacob Reeve (40:12)

    Not that you are God. It is.

    Totally. Like one thing, you know, you know, I'll start saying, could you love your partner even if you weren't? Could you could you get to the place where you would want them to prosper and to be blessed regardless of if you are involved? I want you to get to that place.

    Like even if they divorced you, would you say, yes, at least they have a better life? I only I only want them to stay with me if it's if it's what's best for them. You know, and I'm not saying that, like, go get divorced if it's not. I'm just saying that to help someone's mind to go like, do I actually want what's best for them, or am I just self serving for 20 years of our relationship? And a lot of people are in that. Like,

    Rob Dayton (40:51)

    It's the mindset of love.

    Jacob Reeve (40:52)

    yeah. Yeah.

    Yeah, so I don't know I

    Rob Dayton (40:53)

    It's the mind it's the

    mindset of love a and you're and you're trying to to give them that perspective so that they actually begin acting that way if they think that way.

    Jacob Reeve (41:02)

    Yeah. Yeah. And when you get to that place that's so peaceful. Like you don't have to worry about w what you're gonna eat or drink. You know, like you get to the place w where it what Jesus made said made set makes sense. You're like, okay. It's you know, I'm I've accepted you know, it's a place of acceptance too. It's like patience is a place of accepting whatever, you know, however long this is gonna take and peace is

    The place of accepting whatever, whatever might come. You know, like acceptance is a huge, you know, the midlife crisis is a fight against accepting your life. That's what the midlife crisis is. It's like I'm I'm fighting and I'm throwing a fit because I don't want

    Rob Dayton (41:38)

    That that's amazing.

    Jacob Reeve (41:40)

    to accept what's become of me. And I feel like I have no control. And so I'm gonna fight this and I'm gonna complain and argue.

    Rob Dayton (41:44)

    So wild. So so

    So we we I think the message for listeners is that if you if you're identifying with that, you know, you feel other from God, that's gonna be a misstep, and that's also gonna be a great impediment, not just to your ability to love others, but for you to hear God's voice. So I think the mindset is, man, you are seated in Christ right now in heavenly places. You are a part of the Trinity.

    What you said, Jacob, is God is you can't not hear from God. Like he's

    Jacob Reeve (42:15)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (42:16)

    he's speaking to you all the time, way more than you're pausing to attend to. And just give it give it space. Think of yourself as being unified with God, speaking from Jesus, not to him, and enjoy that unity and conversation. I love it. I you you've taught me so much in this area, and I'm so appreciative. I want to make sure.

    that before our conversations end, that we get to where you're at now because this the wholesome method.com, so the wholesome wholeness, the wholeness method.com, if you want to look up Jacob's ministry, he is working on marriages. Tell us about your internal mission, what you feel like God's wired you to do in marriage that that really stands sets you apart on what you're doing.

    Jacob Reeve (43:00)

    well I think I I have, you know, I do counseling for men and for marriages. And so there's kind of three parts to the wholeness method. The wholeness method is kind of the umbrella, and so that's like individuals, and I'm actually working on my big individuals thing and and and then there's the marriage, which is relationship. So

    Like what is wholeness for an individual? I think it comes in three parts. I think that there's, you know, physical wholeness, psychological wholeness, soul wholeness, and spiritual wholeness. And and then all three of those, if you're whole, it will always manifest in your relationships. So the level of your wholeness is always going to be a res seen in the types of relationships that you have. And and so that's how you can measure.

    Like, you know, how's your marriage? How's your relationship with your kids? How's your relationship with your parents? How's your relationship with your friends? How's your relationship with your community? That's gonna kind of show you the level of wholeness that you have. And it's I mean it's not foolproof, but

    Rob Dayton (43:55)

    That that's so cool. Let me

    say it a different way. Let me say it a different way and and get your thoughts on it. Because I think what you're saying is you're you're three parts, you're a triune being, your spirit, soul, and body. Your body has a brain. Your soul has a mind, will, and emotions. Your spirit is seated in heavenly places, as we've been talking about. And that's the calibration being moved the wholeness method is the calibration.

    Of those three according to love is what I hear you saying. And we like to say on 100x life is what you're

    Jacob Reeve (44:24)

    just

    Rob Dayton (44:25)

    experiencing is what you're creating. So that you could take full responsibility for what I

    Jacob Reeve (44:28)

    Yeah. Totally.

    Rob Dayton (44:31)

    what I think you're saying is that your incongruence between your body, soul, and spirit is the manifestation of.

    It's manifesting in your relationships and how you see life. Is is that a

    Jacob Reeve (44:41)

    Yeah, I love I love that about

    Rob Dayton (44:44)

    is that accurate?

    Jacob Reeve (44:45)

    Yeah, I love that about 100x life. Like the the more the more you take responsibility for your life, the more you'll have control over your life. And and you know, I think the per

    Rob Dayton (44:54)

    Come on.

    Jacob Reeve (44:55)

    I I think the point of life i and including the point of marriage is one of the points is to produce the fruit of the spirit in your life. And I I think that's it. I think I you know, in the beginning when

    in the beginning, the six days of creation, when when it says that when God creates every day what it whatever he creates, he goes and inspects it. So it's like God has an idea of what he wants to create and then he builds it, and then he steps back and he looks at it and he starts to inspect it. And if he inspects it and it passes inspection, it's like it says he says it is good, and it's like

    It's been done the first day. The second day, it's good. The third day, it is good. Like he sees his creation, what he created. And the word for good there is Tov, and it means to function according to the design. It's it means it's functional. It's functioning according to how he wanted it to function. So it's not like a moral good, it's it's a functional good. So he gets to the sixth day when he creates man, and he he creates Adam. And

    When he looks at Adam and he inspects Adam, first time he says, This creation I made is not good.

    Isn't that crazy? And why? It says because it's not

    Rob Dayton (45:59)

    So crazy.

    Jacob Reeve (46:00)

    good for man to be alone. So the creation of man,

    Rob Dayton (46:03)

    Mm.

    Jacob Reeve (46:04)

    we're not whole, we're not functioning according to the design until we're in relationship. And and so he creates Eve, and then

    Rob Dayton (46:11)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (46:12)

    all hell breaks loose.

    And that's intentional.

    Rob Dayton (46:14)

    Yeah. Right. 'Cause then the power to choose.

    Jacob Reeve (46:15)

    That's in t that's part of the perfect creation. Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (46:20)

    Yeah. And that goes back to what you were saying

    Jacob Reeve (46:20)

    So our drive to want to be

    Rob Dayton (46:22)

    that the that aloneness is the biggest problem.

    Jacob Reeve (46:26)

    Yes. That's why I said that is because it's right there in the very first revelation about us in the Bible is that we're broken if we're alone. Something's not right. And so that's what the wholeness method that's the that's like the basis of what the wholeness method is founded off of is what it looks like to be whole and to love and to heal. And I know that.

    You know, when I was at House of Prayer, like the things that I've learned now, like I've gone to hell and back, like I've spent years in hell and where I was like literally alone and I was afraid that I lo had lost everything. And that taught me about aloneness. And and I think that God I think that there's value

    There's value in our emotions. Like I think that a lot of our emotions are so

    How do I say this without sounding weird? I think that one of the things that God finds valuable about us is our emotions because he I don't know if he has access to our emotions outside of us.

    Because he doesn't like if he is really infinite, he's not finite, if he's really immortal, he's not mortal, if he really has abundance, he doesn't understand scarcity, then all these emotions that we have that revolve around mortality and and scarcity, how does he have those except for in us? And so part of his creation and creation.

    Rob Dayton (47:44)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (47:44)

    Creating us and his oneness with us is him exploring those emotions with us and feeling those things with us. And he's right there with us.

    Rob Dayton (47:51)

    Wow. Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (47:52)

    Trying to like I I you know that this some people don't like that idea because it makes God out to be someone that can still learn or that that is somehow changeable.

    Rob Dayton (48:02)

    Mm-hmm.

    Jacob Reeve (48:02)

    But I don't think God is changing in his character

    Rob Dayton (48:04)

    Yes.

    Jacob Reeve (48:05)

    in any way, but I think that he does, he can experience.

    Rob Dayton (48:08)

    No.

    Jacob Reeve (48:08)

    N I think he can st he's still curious. I think curiosity is one of the treasures of mankind. Like if you lose your curiosity, it's that's a dangerous place to be.

    Rob Dayton (48:18)

    Yeah, let me surf that wave about curiosity because it's interesting the way when when I'm hearing you talk, th it makes me think about the curiosity of God is he created man in his image. And in order to create man and his image, which is love, he had

    Jacob Reeve (48:32)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (48:33)

    to give us the power to choose love or fear. And so the in that is a big it's a it's a big, it's a risk, but it's the risk that was required to have people be like him.

    And then so when you say curious, I'm like, yeah,

    Jacob Reeve (48:45)

    Right.

    Rob Dayton (48:45)

    like what it what is man going to do? Like, and and then the other thing that is really interesting about our journeys and where you're at and where I'm at is my biggest revelation this year has been God talking to me about every single thing He's designed in creation being for the sole purpose of drawing us to choose love and then to

    exercise love and practice it. That is like the whole entire core

    Jacob Reeve (49:11)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (49:12)

    purpose and that fits

    Jacob Reeve (49:13)

    No.

    Rob Dayton (49:14)

    so well with that wouldn't happen if we were alone. And and you're saying if we got we got we got even it got messy, but it can't get good without being messy.

    Jacob Reeve (49:24)

    yeah, every manifestation of wholeness in the Bible is a

    Rob Dayton (49:27)

    All has to be together.

    Jacob Reeve (49:29)

    picture of your interaction with others.

    Like all the fruit of the spirit has a relate, every one of the fruits of the spirit has to do with how you interact with others. That's what it looks like to be one in the spirit, is it's in your relationship to others. And so you can have internal wholeness by yourself, but but it will always be manifest in your relationships. And and that's like actually a healthy thing to do in marriages.

    You know, and I've I've done the biblical counseling for for decades. But in the last five years, I added just a lot of science-backed, you know, data and you know, research and psychology. You know, I I wanted to understand everything that the world has to offer. And so I just l I have curiosity. That's a gift that I have. And so I am not afraid to learn from everywhere. And I love it. And I'm I'm never gonna deny Christ.

    There's no way I could ever deny Christ. But I I want to bring all the knowledge of the world. Like this is one thing that not everyone is called to, but I love doing this. I want to bring all the knowledge that I can find in the world to Christ and see what he thinks and see how we might adopt it together. And, you know, if we if we can. But but there's there's basically four

    Rob Dayton (50:35)

    Come on. Come on.

    Jacob Reeve (50:36)

    key areas that make the top 20% of marriages.

    So the latest data on marriages is actually a lot better than it used to be. A lot of people have heard the 50-50 data, like 50% of people will get a divorce. It's actually that's from the 90s. So we have like 30 years or so of like new or 20

    Rob Dayton (50:51)

    Right. Right.

    Jacob Reeve (50:54)

    years of of data, 20 to 30 years more of data now. And now it's more like it's around 40% will get divorced. And then out of the other 60%, there's

    The top six the top 20% is so if it's 100%, 40% are destined for divorce right now, then the next 20% are on a really rocky path of surviving marriage. Then there's another 20% that are that are usually happy, but they have kind of on a roller coaster of, you know, healthy, unhealthy. And then the top 20%.

    Would consider themselves very happily married throughout the duration of their relationship. And that top 20% has four primary characteristics. Number one, they

    Rob Dayton (51:34)

    Mm-hmm.

    Jacob Reeve (51:35)

    they are independently independently healthy, meaning they don't need the relationship to be happy about life. So they get their source from God, from sports, or from, you know, they're feeding

    Rob Dayton (51:46)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (51:46)

    their soul all day, every day.

    And they're independently healthy and they bring that independent health into the relationship. And so they have

    Rob Dayton (51:54)

    So good.

    Jacob Reeve (51:54)

    they're full when they come into the relationship. Usually. I mean, not you know,

    Rob Dayton (51:58)

    So

    Jacob Reeve (51:59)

    it's that's a general idea, is that you've mastered at some level

    Yeah. They they've figured out how to be healthy as an individual. They

    take care of themselves. Their body, soul, and spirit is, you know, whole to some degree. And they can they're they're not like coming into the relationship codependent and they're not coming into the relationship in a in a abusive way or or anything like that. So that's number one. Number two is they've

    learned how to give each other security and regulate each other's nervous systems. So in other words, when they get together, they're not triggering each other, they're soothing each other. And so that means that they've discovered a level of safety with each other. They can be honest, they can be vulnerable, they enjoy each other, and they they're they create safety and vulnerability and that creates honesty and that creates intimacy.

    The third thing is that they've learned how to make their conflicts constructive instead of destructive. So they've learned how to have conflicts and and then how to resolve those conflicts so they don't last days, years, decades. And they've learned how to turn their conflict into healthy communication. And then number four,

    Rob Dayton (53:05)

    Right.

    Jacob Reeve (53:06)

    they absolutely love being together. They enjoy each other, they're they're best friends and they have fun together.

    So those are the four things scientific or you know

    Rob Dayton (53:14)

    Wow.

    I would imagine there's there's a little bit of a progression there. You know, like it's not like you love being together

    Jacob Reeve (53:18)

    Right. Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (53:20)

    first. I don't know. Maybe you did when you fell in love, but like maybe that's my occurrence. But then, there's disagreement and you kind of have to start with, Hey, we're gonna be we're gonna be independently happy outside this relationship. And you know, I feel I feel like these are stepping stones. Is that true?

    Jacob Reeve (53:36)

    I have a a little quiz on my website that'll tell you y you can take an assessment and it'll tell you your scores in those four areas. And it's free. and

    Yeah. And it's there's two different there's the the wholenessmethod.com

    Rob Dayton (53:46)

    Okay, and you can find that at the wholenessmethod.com.

    Jacob Reeve (53:50)

    has the connected marriage course and there's that quiz attached to it and then there's a whole assessment if you end up going through the whole course. And then we have the intimacy blueprint. And the intimacy blueprint is basically about marriage intimacy. And it's not just about sex, it's about

    It's about intimacy, which is intimacy comes from truthfulness in the places of vulnerability. And so the more honest you can get with each other, the more truthful. I like the word truthful a little bit better than honest because you can be honest without being truthful sometimes. And but truthfulness is when you feel so safe with someone that you could tell them anything.

    You could be exactly who you are to them and you invite them into your internal world. And it's very hard to do this. It's very, it's a very scary place to be. But like the church absolutely needs this. They need this at first at the marital level, because think of how many church leaders are having affairs.

    Rob Dayton (54:46)

    Yes.

    Jacob Reeve (54:47)

    And that's because they're not vulnerable anywhere in their life. They're not telling anyone.

    the truth about what they're going through internally. They can't

    Rob Dayton (54:55)

    They can't it's not safe for them. They can't tell them that they have doubts. They can't tell them that they're thinking about other women. They if they do, then they get they get tak the pulpit gets taken away.

    Jacob Reeve (55:05)

    I mean it's it's I see it because a lot of the people that I counsel come out of, you know, have had something like that happen and I'm like, why are you being why do you feel like you have to be duplicitous? You you have two lives. one is you've suppressed this desire for so long and not told anyone about it that you have to now manifest it in a perverted way.

    Instead of talking to people and figuring talking to your wife first of all and talking to her about

    Rob Dayton (55:29)

    Yes.

    Jacob Reeve (55:29)

    these things going on, but you they're like, I couldn't talk about this to my wife because she would, you know, leave me. And I'm like, Okay, so and then and now is she leaving you? Like what's worse? Like telling her that you have a desire or doing the desire and her finding out? Or

    Rob Dayton (55:46)

    Right.

    Jacob Reeve (55:46)

    worse, living duplicitous for your whole life and nothing being real.

    Like that's the worst fate. That's hell actually, because that's aloneness. Like we create hell all around us when we divorce ourselves from vulnerability, from truthfulness. And so like the quick

    Rob Dayton (56:02)

    Yeah, that's the that's the that's the lukewarm. That's the lukewarm position where you're neither hot or cold.

    Jacob Reeve (56:04)

    Right. You're in this like you're trying you're trying

    so hard to fit something that's not you. And so I would rather be really honest with the ones that are close. I mean, you don't want to be honest with people who are immature because they'll just use it to destroy you. But but you can build a marriage and you can build close relationships with those who are around you where it's safe enough to be utterly honest.

    Utter utterly truthful. And though those relationships are really what life is about. If you can if you can have a handful of those

    Rob Dayton (56:34)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (56:35)

    and those people haven't left you, and they're like, okay, I you know, that's what marriage is. It's like, okay, I'm gonna learn all the craziest stuff about you and what you wanna do, your thoughts, wants, and emotions. And I'm not gonna leave you. I'm gonna help you sort that out so you become the healthiest version of yourself. And that's what marriage that's like the best marriage.

    That's what amazing intimate marriage is. And it goes into

    Rob Dayton (56:56)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (56:56)

    sexuality. And so I have a whole course about sexuality because you know, the eight intimacy blueprints we've kind of dis we've we've we've studied over a thousand couples now. And over a thousand people have gone through this and I have all the data on them and it's really fascinating. So I have these eight blueprints and it's the emotional blueprint, sensual.

    desired, the giving, the playful, the imaginative, the archetypal, and the holy. And this is both experientially based and also data-based. These are like these eight different kind of categories of how people connect intimately. so some people will be like

    High emotional meaning they need to have conversation to feel connected. They need to feel like genuine conversation about their thoughts, wants, and emotions. And whenever they talk about their thoughts,

    Rob Dayton (57:43)

    Mm-hmm.

    Jacob Reeve (57:43)

    wants, and emotions, if their spouse tunes in and responds well, they'll open to intimacy. That means like they feel love or the sensual, which means they need touch. Usually for sensual blueprints, a high sensual score would mean that you need touch a lot.

    And your nervous system, usually people who are high touch have chronic stress and they and so they're really

    Rob Dayton (58:03)

    Mm-hmm.

    Jacob Reeve (58:03)

    in their mind is very active and they can't get out of it's hard for them to get out of their mind until they're touched. So I've noticed in my children, like some of them have, you know, like some chronic stress. And if they're stressing out, if I just go over and touch them on the arm and be like, hey, it's okay, I'm here with you, like that quick.

    It just takes a s a second of touch and they're like, okay.

    Rob Dayton (58:25)

    Yes.

    Jacob Reeve (58:26)

    No. Just just to get into their five senses. Visual, they like,

    you know, high sensual, a lot of times music, it'll just calm them right down. It'll take and

    Rob Dayton (58:36)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (58:36)

    it it goes back to the nervous system, you know, the different states of your nervous system. And so to to actually love another person or to have effective conversation, you have to be in what's called the ventral state, which means that you're open and you're not on defense.

    But the other states that your nervous system puts you in are all defensive states. And you can't have effective communication relationally. You can't solve problems in those states because you're just defending yourself. You're just in self-protection mode. And so the first thing, the most important thing if you want to resolve actual conflict is to make sure everyone's not in that make sure everyone's in their ventral state. They feel safe. They feel heard. They feel like they can be vulnerable.

    And then once they're safe and vulnerable, and this goes for kids especially.

    Rob Dayton (59:19)

    Wow.

    Jacob Reeve (59:19)

    If kids don't feel safe, they're going to give you, you you know what it's like if you have teenagers. And they're out. You're if you're but if you're vulnerable with your teenagers and you confess your sins to them and you share your weaknesses.

    Rob Dayton (59:32)

    I do I

    do know.

    Jacob Reeve (59:35)

    They will open up to you and they will share theirs too. And that's because whenever you share vulnerably to someone, it's it's like the testimony. It's an invitation for it's like, this is a safe place. They just made it safe by exposing themselves. Now I can expose myself. I can be truthful. And

    Rob Dayton (59:52)

    Mm.

    Jacob Reeve (59:53)

    so there's the emotional, the sensual.

    The desired and the desired is someone that wants to feel

    Rob Dayton (59:58)

    So good.

    Jacob Reeve (59:59)

    desired. They want their spouse to desire them. They want to feel wanted. Or as a parent, they want their kids to want them. They want their kids to want their advice. And when their kid comes to them and says, Dad, could I ask your advice? It's like, I did it. You know, I won in life. You know, like it's that's that's the one that has a high desired blueprint. Right. Right. And

    Rob Dayton (1:00:18)

    Right. Is that's winning the lotto.

    Jacob Reeve (1:00:21)

    And so this is about intimacy

    in family, really. It's about intimacy in marriage. And this is the bedrock for for sexual intimacy too. Because all of these open up to more and more deeper levels of intimate intimacy, especially with your spouse. And so, you know, the next level is the giving blueprint. You actually, if someone receives what you give, that makes you come become open. You're like, I'll give anything. Like they're they're receiving it. They're they they're enjoying it like

    What I give has an impact on them, I'll give everything. And then there's the playful. That's someone that loves social. Like when they're in the social friend group or out in parties or whatever or in a big setting, that makes them excited and they turn their attention to you and that banter going back and forth, that fun. You know, I'm definitely playful. Like I'm always like joking trying to like find someone that'll engage with me in the back and forth banter, you know. We do this all the time.

    You know, at SBHOP we're all like we kind of built the whole SBHOP on on fun, you know, so it's like that playful type of energy. And then there's imaginative, which is a lot of times people

    Rob Dayton (1:01:24)

    Play playful, yes.

    Jacob Reeve (1:01:25)

    who want who have gone through things that where they want they need to they've needed to escape to somewhere else. And so they use their imagination to build this other place that they can experience things that they don't necessarily

    Maybe it's that they need to get away, or maybe it's that they want to experience things that they're not, but they want to do it in the safety of their own mind, but they don't want to do it in body. And a lot of times people who have like sexual abuse in their background, they are they are imaginatives because they had to go as a child into an imaginary place, and then as a spouse, that's what they're gonna a lot of times return to, and it's not.

    bad. Like that's something that I want to tell people. That's not like bad for them to want to do that. It's a way for them to work through their trauma and do it in a safe place with their spouse. And it's healing it can be healing for them. And then there's the archetypal, which means they're just attracted to the polarities. They want a man to be masculine and a woman to be feminine and that turns them on. and that makes them feel their nervous system feel right and safe and good. And then there's the holy which is where they want

    Everything to be in alignment with God, like they can't open up, you know, it it's very hard for them to align to feel emotionally connected with a person unless their belief systems are in alignment and they're they feel united and they feel connected, like it's right before God. So those are kind of the eight blueprints in in that. So that so I have two two things for couples. One is the connected marriage, which is this four, the four keys.

    of the top 20%. And then there's the intimacy blueprint, which which goes through nervous system stuff. It'll tell you how to co-regulate your spouse. Like it has this huge assessment that you go through and your results will tell you how you how you regulate your nervous system, how your spouse can help you regulate your nervous system. It'll give you the eight blueprint scores. It'll give you a whole bunch of other stuff like your actual physiological health.

    And it gives you seven reports. So so those are kind of that's that's what's on my website.

    Rob Dayton (1:03:24)

    Wow, that's amazing, Jacob. And

    Yeah, and that just as a r reminder, so our listeners, if you want to find Jacob in terms of his ministry, it's the wholeness method, no spaces dot com. Hold the wholeness method dot com. And I'm looking at it right now, and you could just click on on any of those that he's mentioned and enjoy those. Dude, I how how much longer do you think we could talk and be? I

    Jacob Reeve (1:03:47)

    We can do day.

    Rob Dayton (1:03:49)

    think we could probably do a whole podcast series.

    A day. I we could just talk forever because you know that's just you know how we are. You know, we love this conversation about God and about how to I think you and I are congruent in that we're both looking for transformation and we're both looking for transformation from within so that the with the outside, the the non-alone communication, experiencing others can be

    Jacob Reeve (1:04:17)

    Amen.

    Rob Dayton (1:04:17)

    so rooted in love and and perfection.

    I love that about us. I'm I'm very thankful for our relationship. And you know,

    Jacob Reeve (1:04:21)

    Me too, Rob. I love you too, Rob.

    Rob Dayton (1:04:26)

    I love you so much. I love that we God put us together and

    Jacob Reeve (1:04:30)

    Yeah.

    Rob Dayton (1:04:30)

    that we're staying and we're still running together. And we're in this house of prayer thing. He's he's a director of the pr house of prayer, along with the Malmstems And we're just doing it in different lanes now, but all kind of on the same frequency of love, and it's just brilliant.

    any last things for our listeners that you think would be important as we say goodbye.

    Jacob Reeve (1:04:48)

    Well, I love the 100X life. I

    you know, when your friend makes a project, you always want to support them, but and so I'm like, of course, I have to say that I love this. But you know, it took me when you first when you first

    Rob Dayton (1:05:00)

    Yeah, right.

    Jacob Reeve (1:05:02)

    wrote this, when I first learned that you wrote

    this, and you were telling me a little bit about it.

    I got a copy and it took me a couple months to get to it because you know I have other things that I'm reading, but once I got to it and I started reading through it, I'm like, my God, this is this

    is what the church needs. This really is what every believe every person needs to read this. it will only

    Rob Dayton (1:05:23)

    Come on.

    Jacob Reeve (1:05:23)

    bless your life. And I don't know, I just wanna say that that I really I was really impressed, Rob. I really was. It

    I wish I came up with it. No, I'm gl no, I'm I'm joking. I'm joking.

    Rob Dayton (1:05:34)

    Well, well, I so I would say I would no, well, I would say I

    Jacob Reeve (1:05:38)

    Ha ha ha.

    Rob Dayton (1:05:39)

    no, I received that. There's lots of things that I wish I came up with that you did. But I would say that you did come up with it because our journeys are so intertwined. How how can you even separate?

    Jacob Reeve (1:05:49)

    Yeah. It's the same.

    Rob Dayton (1:05:53)

    we are so one. Like our our journeys are I mean, I feel like I'm so part of you. You're so part of me and our families and how we've tracked and how we've learned. I love that you revealed your story, and this is something I learned for the first time from you. So I'm gonna be really excited to just talk offline about this. Is that season after SBHOP

    The fruit of it, the amazing transformation, this view of what aloneness looks like, so that you could have compassion and resilience against it and understand God's word in perhaps a way that no one else can. And now you get to share that and you get to help people put their lives together in in syncing the love, the thro the three aspects of who they are: body, soul, and spirit. And

    It's brilliant and I love it. And I love that that I get to we get to partner with each other and we get to watch what what happens. So dude, thank you so much.

    Jacob Reeve (1:06:40)

    Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah, thank you, Rob. Yeah, I appreciate you having me on.

    Rob Dayton (1:06:49)

    I really appreciate you being a part of this.

    and guys, hope you have a good week. Think about what Jacob's saying. Let's put some of this into practice. It's not 100x life if we don't put it into practice. We're not just listening to this. Play it back, take some notes, and then and maybe a prompt for you is Holy Spirit, where are you calling me to be congruent in my spirit, soul, and body so that I can practice wholeness?

    Check out his website one last time, theholenessmethod.com, and we will see you next week.

Jenna Dee https://jennadee.co
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Ep. 137 | 50 Years in Men's Ministry Taught Him This
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Ep. 135 | You Don't Need a Pulpit to Be the Light